Finding Joy & Redefining Love with Author Kara Kavensky

There are some people that you meet in your life and just know instantly that you're going to be friends with for a very long time. For me, one of those people is Kara Kavensky. 

I've watched Kara go through the worst things that a person should have to endure, including a traumatic marriage, and subsequent divorce, from an abusive narcissist  and the tragic loss of her son. And the most incredible thing about her, is that she moves through all of the devastating pain with a beautiful open heart and a passion for telling stories of hope and love. 

And joy. 

Finding Joy to be more specific. 

Kara captures much of her journey in her upcoming memoir, Finding Joy, where she shares her awakening moment, the impact of witnessing a beautiful love story between Bob and Joy, and how it inspired her to find courage in her own life. 

We talk about the importance of healing before entering new relationships, the challenges of divorce, and the significance of self-love and seeking out positive examples of things you most desire to have in your own life. 

Takeaways

• Kara's awakening moment occurred during her third pregnancy, realizing she was in an abusive relationship with a dangerous narcissist.
• Therapy and energy modalities helped Kara cope and heal during her marriage.
• Bob and Joy's love story became a beacon of hope for Kara during her darkest times.
• Kara emphasizes the importance of healing before entering new relationships.
• Divorce is a challenging process, and seeking professional help is crucial.
• Self-love and positive examples are essential for personal growth.
• Kara's memoir aims to inspire others to believe in love after hardship.
• Collecting evidence of positive relationships can empower individuals.
• It's important to set boundaries and prioritize mental health during difficult times.

No one  person should have to endure the pain that my friend Kara has. It's just not fair. Even so, Kara has chosen to live a fully authentic life, out loud and proudly sharing her story, and help be a source of light and that beacon of hope that so many of us can use right now. 

Listen, be inspired, and then share this episode with someone in your life that needs this positive evidence of the possibility of finding the love you desire, even against all of the odds. 

Connect with Kara directly and follow her work at: 

https://www.karakavensky.com/

Check out this link for all the ways we can connect:
https://stan.store/LisaMitchell

Join the 60K+ other people who follow Divorce-Curious on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@divorcecuriouspodcast

Stay up-to-date at the Divorce-Curious website at:
https://www.divorcecurioushelp.com

Drop us a voice message Speakpipe

Transcript

Lisa Mitchell (00:00)
up to some shenanigans when we go live because hey, you guys are in for the best episode today. Welcome to the Divorce Curious Show. I'm your host Lisa, but we don't care about that. We want to get to the cool one in the room. And that today is my friend, my inspiration. She literally has been in my phone. The title in my phone when Kara calls me from the very first time I met her is Badass Endure of All Things.

And I cannot, I will never change it because it has been proven true over and over and over again. And my guest Kara Kavinsky, just again, badass and doer of all things. I'm not even gonna, she's many, many things to many, many people and has an incredible story and tons of talents. And she's getting a book published, breaking the news here. So congratulations on that, but.

beyond all of her amazing professional and creative accomplishments is just an incredibly heart-centered, empathetic encourager that I feel so lucky to have in my life. And Kara, thank you so much for joining us today on the Divorce Curious Show.

Kara Kavensky (01:23)
of speechless. So thank you very much for that intro. I did not know that that's how you had me saved in your phone. I want a screenshot of that.

Lisa Mitchell (01:34)
I like for real, every time you call me, it pops up with your picture, which I love. It's, it's your black, like leaning, leaning forward in the chair picture and it's badass and doer of all things. Like just your picture has changed and updated over time, but that I'm like, I, there's no other way to describe her. It's just a perfect fit.

Kara Kavensky (01:53)
thank

you. Well, thanks for having me on this podcast. I'm really grateful for you. likewise, with all the kudos and compliments to you, and I'm excited about this venture for you. my ground zero, I would say my awakening moment when I was married, I was pregnant with my third child and it

Lisa Mitchell (02:08)
Thank you.

Kara Kavensky (02:23)
I was just hit by a five alarm fire and I was in the middle of a kind of a standard-ish argument. This one was a little different. I was being yelled at for the first time and it just hit me that I was in a very abusive narcissistic relationship and that describes the other party that I eventually successfully divorced but being pregnant with.

kid number three, that could not happen soon because I breastfed all my kids for two and a half years. I had a home birth with my second. I could not possibly conceptualize sharing this child with another party, which would have been his family and that was out of the question. And so I got through that through furtive,

therapy and so many different energy modalities and things that helped me cope and heal, take the edge off and help me get to the exit in which I wanted to run with my hair on fire through as soon as I realized what I was dealing with. And then because of my children, I needed to wait.

And so just that whole process was just gut wrenching and difficult. And when you grow up with red flags, it feels like home. So I was not aware consciously that what I was dealing with. I knew I didn't like him. I knew some other things, but I was also the child of divorce.

Lisa Mitchell (03:49)
Yeah.

Yeah. Ugh.

Kara Kavensky (04:18)
and didn't want to experience that again. So my concern, my first thought was I have to go through that again. So what are the lessons I need to learn to get there? And what are the lessons I need to learn so I do not ever repeat this pattern of behavior? And then through years later,

Lisa Mitchell (04:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kara Kavensky (04:46)
I finally was able to get divorced when my youngest was 10. I started the process when he was about seven. And there is a very, very low moment where, and I'm not naturally a depressive person. I was in a very, very dark place, but I was not diagnosed with depression. And had I been diagnosed, that would have further compounded

the stress I was under because the then spouse would have not understood and would have capitalized on that and made it much, much, much, much worse. And I probably would have ended up in prison because of, you know, things that I shouldn't say. I, I've been a writer for most of my life that writing has taken on different iterations.

Lisa Mitchell (05:22)
weaponized it. Right.

Kara Kavensky (05:45)
From a sales and marketing standpoint, I'm a expert on corporate communications and corporate storytelling. I have written thousands

Lisa Mitchell (05:58)
We

met through your writing.

Kara Kavensky (06:01)
That's right. That's right. I wrote a piece on you.

Lisa Mitchell (06:03)
I'll never forget it.

You called me, you were making a return at Nordstrom or something while you were doing my interview. And I was like, what is happening? Who is this woman? How is she going to remember anything? And little did I know that your all things photographic sensory memory would just make a detailed article at the end of the chaos. Right? I know. I was like, what is?

Kara Kavensky (06:27)
Yeah, with receipts in hand, walking back out to my car.

Lisa Mitchell (06:32)
Who is this woman? I need to know her because she is as chaotic as I am. I found a sister. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt, but that's still that story is like one of my favorite introductions to your writing talents. I was on the receiving end of it and I'm astounded. Yeah.

Kara Kavensky (06:37)
wait, yeah, organized.

Well, yeah, thank you for reminding me about that. I, and this is the story I'm about to share. This is what sparked my memoir that I'm getting ready to have published, which I can't speak of completely yet. Maybe by the time this podcast goes live, we'll see. I'll let you know. We can put it in show notes, but definitely.

It's coming out. So I have a publisher. So right around the time when Jake was seven, seven and a half, I was just very, very low. Like that was my, and not because he was seven and a half, but it was just the timing.

Lisa Mitchell (07:22)
yes it is.

Although that'll

do it. That'll test it.

Kara Kavensky (07:45)
Well, and my daughter was being recruited by schools, academics, athletics. She was a soccer player, ended up playing at Indiana University and ended up being dual sport actually. So it was just a lot happening. And initially I thought I need to stick with this very unfortunate, should not be married situation until Jake was old enough to

lock doors, turn off lights, be responsible for just general safety at home because of my lack of trust in anything remotely close to supervising the children for the person I was divorcing. And then my concern turned to my daughter because of the high intensity level at which she was competing.

not just in academics and sports and it was just, it was a lot so I couldn't do the, I couldn't file. Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't. I described this with a bit more detail in my memoir, but I, right in that timeframe, it was actually the next day after a certain incident happened, I interviewed a World War II vet named Bob and,

Lisa Mitchell (08:48)
You didn't want to pile on, right? You didn't want to pile on because that's what moms do, right? They put their kids first.

Kara Kavensky (09:12)
I, it was a lovely interview. I had never met an old man who was that happy to be honest. Most of them, you know, if you have a health problem, it's hard for you to be chipper, right? Like you're in pain, you're uncomfortable. And Bob was just this Zen Mr. Rogers, darling, darling man, funny. He said, when you get to be my age, everyone thinks you're senile. I say mess with people. And he did.

Lisa Mitchell (09:24)
Yeah.

Kara Kavensky (09:42)
He did mess with people. It was amazing. It was so fun to watch. Yeah, I got a lot of Bob stories. And so I asked him if I could go back, come back the following week and read him my rough draft, which was something I never did before. I interview you, you answer my questions. Thank you very much. You'll see it in print and I'll get back to you I have any clarifications. And that's it typically. And you know, these thousands interviews I've done. And, but this one was different and I,

Lisa Mitchell (09:44)
I love your pop stories, yeah.

Kara Kavensky (10:12)
I could not believe I said, may I come back next week and read you my rough draft. Like I just really wanted to see this man again. I was just drawn to him. And so I go back the following week and he says, I missed out on marrying the love of my life. I don't know if she's dead or alive or where she is, but I need to find her and ask her for forgiveness.

So that is a mic drop moment. And I found myself saying to him, what did you do? And he said, I never asked her to marry me. And that was the first time he had spoken of her, this woman named Joy, in 67 years. His kids didn't know about her. It was just a...

broad-sided, blind-sided moment and one of the most magical moments of my life. And I sought out this woman who I was successful in finding and reuniting this couple. And this happened in the absolute most desperate time of my life where I am treading water

Lisa Mitchell (11:25)
That's so crazy.

Kara Kavensky (11:34)
keeping my kids and just trying to keep them safe and healthy and intact and just crawling towards the exit door of my marriage and had not had a beautiful example of what love was in my life, case in point, who I married. And so Bob and Joy became

that example. And so I truly believe that there's nothing more powerful than possibility and the example set by others that you look to and that you are inspired by. And Bob.

Lisa Mitchell (12:12)
off.

Kara Kavensky (12:24)
with his trust in me to help him close out a charmed life with one final glorious chapter was absolute magic. It was a miracle. And when I knew I needed to write the story, I had to get divorced first. There's no writing if you can't have a safe space.

Lisa Mitchell (12:37)
Mm.

Right.

I want to ask you as you're because it's to me what strikes me, you know, in this part of your story is and I knew you in this part of your story. So it was an interesting time to kind of see things navigate from from the outside. But how did that hope? And I mean, it's a pretty courageous thing that

Bob Android did, right? Like that's, you think about the amount of courage it takes A, to say that stuff out loud and B, to enlist the help of, you know, damn near an FBI agent to, you know, you know what's going to happen next. It's going to happen. You're going to get your answers. You're going to get, you know, possibly the opportunity to redeem. How did you help through the process of helping them navigate that reunion? Like, how did that give you courage? How did that?

How did that embolden you or what was the impact of that on helping you make your next steps to do the hard part of pursuing your, in sharp contrast to the reunion, right? You're getting out of something that's equally, if not more complex and nuanced than what they're doing. How did that kind of correlate or was there a relationship between the victories you were seeing through that and the challenges you were having?

in your own house.

Kara Kavensky (14:14)
Well, they were certainly adversely proportional. so their example of hope and what's possible and just the audacity of love and Joy's ability to forgive, he dumped her. And I get into that whole story in my book, which is

Lisa Mitchell (14:19)
Right.

Kara Kavensky (14:44)
called Finding Joy as it should be. There's no other name, there's no other name for it. But in this process, they were the beacon and my guidepost that I could get through this, I can survive this. And there is magic out there. And speaking of magic, during this timeframe, I read

Lisa Mitchell (14:49)
Right, right.

Kara Kavensky (15:14)
the entire Harry Potter series, I think seven or eight times, especially the last book, dozens of times, just to keep believing in magic. Anything I could do to have something to cling to because I just felt like my light was just flickering out. And Bob and Joy were, are, and just a miracle in my life.

And I'm so tremendously grateful for them. So it was just incredible to have them at this time and they were my lifeboat.

Lisa Mitchell (15:53)
Wow. So the term I use for things like that is collecting evidence, right? Collecting the positive evidence of this is something that exists. This is a real thing. There are other people living in this reality. And like, there's not an exception for me. Like this is something, I'm seeing the evidence with my own two eyes from a scientific lens, right? Give me all the data, give me all the evidence. And it is possible.

And it's not exceptional, like as if I'm excluded from the possibility of also having this thing that I desire in my life. And so I'm so glad that you Bob and Joy. my gosh.

I love it. I love it. I am so, so thankful as your friend that you had the experience with Bob and Joy and that you got to play a role in helping to create that opportunity and that, that reconciliation of love and that they got to enjoy, you know, a portion of their life story together as they always had hoped they would. and that you were able to draw strength and hope and collect the positive evidence of

of what was possible for you because I know having been present and walked through a portion of your experience that, and I think really for anybody listening or watching this that is in that, I have to do something and I feel like I can't. Like that is the most disempowered, gut wrenching, heartbreaking, just space to have to get up and live in every day.

So for you to be able to find the courage and be emboldened by witnessing the complicated and long delayed love story of Bob and Joy and to believe enough that that was possible for you, that you could be brave enough to go do it. Like that's a tremendous act of courage. I know like you're one of

One of the most courageous people I know for so many reasons, but I think watching you navigate that and you know, Bob was a war veteran and I feel like you, there should be some medal for you for the battle that, I mean, honestly, it wasn't a battle, it was a war, right? Like, so kudos to you for maintaining the courage to give yourself the opportunity to have something different.

a lot of people give up or settle or feel like they can't. And you are that beacon, I think right now for people who feel like they can't or like that's not for them or not available to them. So thank you for letting people borrow your courage to believe it's possible for them too.

Kara Kavensky (18:53)
Well, I thank you for that. I was motivated to include my story in and made it a memoir versus just about this couple in order to help others. And I had no intention of including my story. I thought it was more like Tuesdays at Mori and I showed up and witnessed this just miracle in front of me of these.

not a Gynarion's and it was, it didn't make sense for me not to. It did take some convincing through another friend of mine to say, hey, where's your story? And there's no Bob and Joy without you, so you should be in this. And that part was terrifying to include, but I've figured out a balance with it, I hope.

Lisa Mitchell (19:52)
Yeah, I've read a draft. I've read the draft. think you've done it beautifully.

Kara Kavensky (19:58)
Yeah, well, and there've been so many iterations and different things. hopefully it helps people when they get to this point of...

Here, we can scratch that part actually about the draft. Let's not talk about a draft being out there. Let's edit. All right. We're editing this out.

Lisa Mitchell (20:22)
Okay, well, hold on.

We're gonna get the clips on the audio for the edits. Yep, okay. 20 minute mark, got it.

Kara Kavensky (20:32)
You

Lisa Mitchell (20:33)
Got it. Okay, so I wanna.

Kara Kavensky (20:38)
Well, my

goal with the book is to help as many people as possible understand and experience a story vicariously on the page of love, even after, and that it's never too late for love. this belief in miracles, was really, they're still,

Bob and Joy, they've both since past, are still very present for me. And I love them dearly and have so much gratitude for them. And it's just, it's been incredible. And we'll see how the book is received. I have hopes that it will touch others when I share the story of

Bob and Joy and reuniting them, I realized very quickly I needed to carry tissue with me at all times, which is a positive response when someone gets teary and maybe they're the ages of someone's parents or someone's grandparents and they don't even need that type of connection. It's just this beautiful connection.

Lisa Mitchell (21:46)
Right.

Kara Kavensky (22:07)
in general, think just of love and possibility. And Bob had a regret that he had not married her. I do believe that they lived the lives that they were supposed to live and came together in this beautiful way at the end of their lives. And it's just astounding to me that I was involved in it in some small way.

very grateful for that.

Lisa Mitchell (22:42)
Well, and it's interesting to me when I hear you talk about their story is because again, as your friend and as someone who has been kind of on the ride to varying degrees throughout a lot of your, know, knowing you need to get out, doing the getting out, right? All of the fallout and our experiences of getting to the out.

piece of it in the first phases of the out piece, right? Like it's, I always joke that a contentious divorce is the gift that keeps on giving, right? Because it's people, there's not the clean finality line of demarcation. It is an ongoing and ever present process of negotiation, especially if you have kids and it can be.

exhausting, can be scary, can be, you know, it's tremendously sad. And I think one of the things I have loved for you and for, you know, those of you along for the ride with us today, like we didn't, we didn't, there's no outline. have, we didn't talk about where we were going to go with this. So, but I feel like for me to witness, you get your, you know, I want to say Bob and Joy connection.

Right? You're redeeming love story and you're manifesting a relationship that's beautiful and loving and positive and healthy and seeing you in that relationship now versus being on the ride with you on the exit ramp for what you had before is just as a friend, it's like my greatest hope and greatest joy for you is to see you now.

right? And to see you get to like be rewarded with and nourished by, you know, that aspirational love story, like playing out. So I just, I'm so happy. I love it. You know, I'm like the biggest fan of you and your dude. And I just, yes, I'm like, I don't, well, we didn't talk about how much of what we wanted to share. So I'm like, I'll let you decide.

Kara Kavensky (24:53)
We can name him.

Yeah.

Lisa Mitchell (25:02)
But just like, can't not smile when I think about and I see you guys together and I'm just, I'm like, goddamn girl, like you deserve it. Like you, you deserve it. You deserve it. I know you do. yes, you do. Yes, you do.

Kara Kavensky (25:14)
You're goddamn right I do. I've been through fucking hell and I deserve every ounce of Adam, I can tell you. And I

did the work and I worked my ass off to get healthy. So a couple things. One, divorce is hard. If you're unhappy, get a good lawyer.

Find the scariest one that you don't want to ever have to deal with and hire them. Get a good therapist, get somebody who does energy work, and not get into another relationship for a long time. Long enough that you heal, you get into a space where you are whole enough to keep healing alongside someone.

jump vine to vine because you will just repeat patterns and then fall into some sort of victim-y bullshit thing. But do the work. it's not easy at all. And the work is hard. The PTSD from being in a relationship with a narcissistic, emotionally abusive person is terrible. And you end up saying all the things in these triggering moments where

You say outrageously inappropriate things when you are triggered and it is so important to be in a safe space or give yourself, create that safe space for yourself and heal. And a lot of people aren't willing to do it, period. And they don't want to talk about the tough stuff. And it's hard for me to talk about the weather with someone. I'm not a shallow into the pool.

Lisa Mitchell (26:55)
No, no, and I'll.

surface level person.

Yeah.

Kara Kavensky (27:08)
I'm not, and it's really difficult. But do the work. Or you know what, if you end up in another relationship, you know, well, guess what? That you're unhappy with or similarities and so forth. So it's really important to get help. But also having some sort of guidepost, right? Like this loving example. I had Bob and Joy.

as the first example of unconditional love, safe space in my life. And I did not have that before. And just them and in being around them, it was just amazing. And so then I knew, okay, whatever my marriage was, was nothing I wanted, nothing, nothing.

Lisa Mitchell (28:03)
Yeah.

Kara Kavensky (28:05)
My kids, I wanted them. That was it. And then when I went through all of this healing, did all of this work, and when I met Adam,

I knew, we both knew the moment we met and he is everything I've always wanted and nothing I've ever experienced before. And I just was not willing to compromise on any of it, especially when you go through something so terrible and that I'm like, I'm not repeating that.

I had hard stops on my filters of stuff and not saying I didn't make mistakes and blundering along the way, but I certainly chose well. And I didn't want a good guy. I wanted a great man.

Lisa Mitchell (29:06)
Yes. yeah. We don't need good guys. We need great men. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it always strikes me, you know, I know how much work you've done. know, you know, kind of the time between getting out and what your experience with Adam and how much, just all the hard, you know, confronting all the deep dark spaces and using all the different tools and modalities and support that you could to do it.

differently, you know, and I, and I just laugh in contrast because, you know, when I was back on, back on dating apps back in the day, I would run across the, the profile of your ex, knowing what I know about him and then seeing how he advertised himself. And it was the most aspirational, the most aspirational profile of

of who he was selling himself to be versus who I have seen him operate to be, right? And it's like, let that be. And it was like immediate, right? Like to your point, take the time to heal or you repeat for people who are perpetrators of this, the narcissist and like, there is no downtime. They need to immediately find someone else that they can benefit from being able to control and abuse and gaslight and...

denigrate and all the things that they love to do. they don't, the end game is not resolution or healing for them. It's like, who's my next, right? And again, there's enough stories of kind of aftermath of one path of healing, deciding different, doing the work versus just finding someone else to let you rinse and repeat, copy paste all your bullshit on over and over over again to, you know, how many additional victims and piles of

know, destruction are there in the path of that person. And I think it's just, again, a testament to like the intention, the willingness to do the work, knowing what you want, like you said, right? Like you knew, you knew the great man that you were looking for. You knew the qualities that that person would do and the safety that they would provide for you. And there was not, there was not a tolerance. It was, you were very quick.

to filter out like, nope, not it, nope, not it, nope, not it, right? And we were both dating in that time and I was like, damn, she's like so good at like just not for me, not for me. Misalignment, see you later, thank you, bye, right? I was like, man, I'm still like bored and I'm with them, but it's okay and it's not okay. And you're like, my God, just be done, right?

Kara Kavensky (31:51)
Well, and I

don't have the online dating experience. I didn't do that.

Lisa Mitchell (32:01)
be glad. You miss nothing. I promise you.

Kara Kavensky (32:06)
It just seemed like shopping to me. just didn't want to. Okay. Well, I think that everyone should be with someone who meets or exceeds their capacity for love and someone that is so there and so present and just thinks the world of you. And so find that reflection, you know, in someone. But you really need to heal first. that is a really tough road.

Lisa Mitchell (32:09)
shopping is way better. Yeah. This is, yeah.

Kara Kavensky (32:36)
and definitely, definitely not easy. But I am very supportive and encouraging and hoping for all the best for everyone going through this difficult process. And I love that you interviewed Kirsten and doing the kids are all right. Yes, yes she is. Yes she is.

Lisa Mitchell (32:57)
My daughter is amazing, isn't she? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Kavensky (33:05)
I think that kids are all right. They know what's going on and I think that there's a lot to be said for providing a loving relationship, an example of a loving relationship, even if that's self-love. Self-love and making that decision, that's huge. That's huge and it's showing

Lisa Mitchell (33:24)
Yes.

Kara Kavensky (33:35)
just the best example of someone and those boundaries which are really, really important.

Lisa Mitchell (33:45)
Yeah, and I think one of the questions that spurred me to action and I, and you had the answer to the question, I think in your situation, was a little more subtle, but it was, this a marriage that I would be happy to see my daughter in? Like, is this a relationship that I would like her to be, what I feel good about?

Kara Kavensky (34:07)
you

Lisa Mitchell (34:11)
her being in the relationship I am in right now. And my daughter was three when I made my decision. And I couldn't in good conscious justify that. So that was really the catalyst of me finding the courage and knowing even with the tough road ahead that it was absolutely and not, it was the absolute right decision and never for a moment have I hesitated to believe that that's a fact because of that.

that was my test. And I think we're very similar in what we hope for our kids and the example we strive to be for our kids, sometimes even in stark contrast to other examples that they have. And yeah, I think if you're listening to this or you're watching this and you have children or you're staying for the kids or that's been your reason not to maybe more thoughtfully consider

going through the tough phases it's going to take and the changes in your life it's going to take and the fallout you might experience. If you're staying for the kids, just sit on that for a minute. If you were watching this as the parent of your child and this was the relationship they were in, would you feel good? Would you feel like they're safe? Would you feel like they're healthy? Would you feel like they're loved and cared for? And if the answer is no,

you know, that informs a lot and should direct maybe some strategic next moves to explore. So again, the point of this podcast is never pro-divorce or pro-marriage or stay or go. It's hoping to share stories like Kara's about what it looks like to make that decision and what it feels like to go through it. And ultimately what's available to you when you give yourself

the gift of healing and space and clarity to know what is good for you next.

Kara Kavensky (36:12)
said yes absolutely thank you for doing this podcast I'm really grateful that you are offering

perspectives, a variety of perspectives.

Lisa Mitchell (36:23)
Yeah, it's,

I've learned a lot. like, I didn't really want to do it. Like who wants to do a podcast about divorce and hard stuff and whatever. But like, I also feel like I wish I would have had, I wish I would have had perspectives and, and resources and alternatives to, even just people who I knew, like I wasn't on my own or going through it, something new for the first time. There were other people that had been there before me. so that's kind of why I'm showing up and inviting my brilliant

brilliant friends and, and having them share their experience like you've done so well today. But I am so excited, Kara, that people are going to get to know you better, that they're going to get to enter the beautiful story of, of Bob and Joy and, and get to borrow your courage in a, more in-depth way with the book coming out and you have your, your own podcast and where, where are the

best ways that people can enjoy more of the beauty and wisdom of Kara Kavinsky.

Kara Kavensky (37:23)
My website, KaraKavinsky.com, that's my, I'm at Kara Kavinsky on all the social handles, most of the social handles. I have a sub stack and my website, you can sign up to receive information when my book becomes available for pre-sale.

Lisa Mitchell (37:46)
Awesome. And everything will be linked in show notes as well. We'll make it easy for you to connect with Kara. She is a brilliant, brilliant artist with her words, whether they're spoken through the podcast or whether they're written in a book or on a sub stack or, you know, lucky enough to sit across from you and share a meal or have a tea. So I just want everybody listening and watching this to get more of you because I know what a blessing and encourager and source of

courage you've been for me and the time that we've known each other. And man, just, want people to know you, Kara. You're a good egg. You're a good egg. You're badass doer of all things and a good egg. I mean, what else, what else can I say? All right, Kara, any, any burning things, any, any last thoughts that you just want to like, you gotta say it or you're going to regret it kind of thing.

Kara Kavensky (38:42)
not that I would regret it, but I always like to encourage people and just surround themselves with positivity and all the things that make them feel good, especially when they're going through something that is challenging and know that growth happens right outside your comfort zone and you're going to be a stronger person through this, whichever direction, whatever you're going through.

Lisa Mitchell (39:06)
Hell yeah. Smart and wise words from someone who knows it and has lived it and helps other people do it beautifully. So thank you so much, Kara, for being on the show today. I know you all took copious notes about your learnings from today and you have some good questions to ask yourself and you're all gonna be looking for Kara's book presale when that becomes available, because I'm not gonna shut up about it. So you might as well just get on the list.

So do yourself the favor there, follow the sub stack and get on the list there for Kara. But if you know, and I know you do, if you know somebody who is at this point, if they can relate to Kara's story or they're at that inflection point of like, what do I do next? Or do I have the courage to do this? Please, please, please share this episode. It costs you nothing. It helps a lot.

It's on every platform you could ever want so whether they are an iTunes person or a Spotify person or a YouTube watcher It's it's all there. So share it like comment Let me know what you think of the episode leave leave a comment If you have questions for Kara, I'll make sure I get her sage wisdom to share with you But until next time friends stay curious