A Candid Conversation With My Daughter: The Reality Of Growing Up With Divorced Parents

This is the most important interview I'll ever do. I have no doubt about that. 

When my daughter texted me and asked if she could be a guest on this podcast, I couldn't have been more surprised. Or more afraid, honestly. 

As her mom, the single most important priority in my life since before the day she was born was always trying to do the best thing for her. My biggest fear has been, and always will be, making the wrong decision and doing something that will hurt her. It has kept me up more night than I can even count. 

I know I'm not alone in that fear and many of you can relate to that very same thing. 

She became the child of divorce at very young age. And while I've always tried to talk openly with her about her experience throughout her life growing up as a child of divorced parents, I know there are many assumptions I've made about what that has felt like for her. 

This conversation with her gave me so many insights into her actual experience, answered so many questions I've had, and change my perspective on a lot of my own feelings and assumptions I've had as her mom. 

We cover A LOT of ground on this one and it's a little longer than most of my episodes but I think it's worth every single minute and I hope that listening in on this raw and candid conversation can help you in some way. 

Nothing was off limits in this conversation and we touch on so many topics including: 

- When she first realized divorced parents weren't the norm

- How other kids, and their parents, treated her when they found out her parents were divorced

- The impact that living in two different households, with two very different families, had on how she viewed and expressed herself

- How her relationships with both me and her dad has changed through the years as she realized we were just normal people with flaws and our own lives 

- How going up with divorced parents has impacted her view of her own relationships and what she thinks about what her future relationships and family will look like.

And so much more. 

This is basically me having a conversation with a giant piece of my heart and my most favorite person in the entire world and sharing it with the world. 

It was scary. It was awesome. And it changed me in the best way. 

K - I love you more than anything and I'm SO proud to be your mom. 

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Transcript

Lisa Mitchell (00:00.0)
This is a Divorce Curious podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. If you're here, your life and marriage might kinda suck right now, and I've been exactly where you are. At Divorce Curious, we're gonna say the quiet parts out loud. We're gonna sit in the anger, confusion, and disappointment that you're feeling, and talk about what it looks like to go through the before, during, and after. 

Lisa Mitchell (00:38.304)
of being Divorce Curious. I'm glad you're here. 

Lisa Mitchell (00:46.35)
So this is an interview that I was not expecting to do. But when my daughter asked me if she could be a guest on the podcast, I mean, how do I say no to that? I'll tell you, I was like a little surprised, A, that she was interested in doing an episode and maybe like a little afraid to be honest, because you know, I'm pretty confident. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:12.65)
In my ability to execute in most things like professionally, like I can usually figure it out and it's okay. But as a mom, I've always been a little bit afraid that I'm doing things wrong or screwing things up or single-handedly gonna be landing my kid in therapy, which, know, no shame in therapy. We're fans here. We're fans here. But here we are. So I want to give just a little bit of backstory for you listening. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:41.102)
So you can kind of understand the road that we've been on. So my daughter is now, as of the time that we're recording this, she's 19 years old and her dad and I separated shortly after her third birthday. So long story short, I am the one that left. We moved out, my daughter and I moved out shortly before Christmas, 16 years ago. Right, isn't that crazy to think about? years ago, wow. And basically it... 

Lisa Mitchell (02:09.824)
resulted in a really abrupt change of everything that I knew as a wife and a mother and everything that she knew as a child coming from both parents living in the same household to multiple, multiple moves. Like, I don't even know. I don't know if we have an exact number on how many moves you've made in your lifetime, but we had several pretty abruptly there, like three and then four pretty quickly. And so it has been... 

Lisa Mitchell (02:37.334)
Everything from abrupt changes in living situations to now we're doing the handoff of shame in the McDonald's parking lot at the truck stop halfway between where we're living, packing bags, just everything that means the world to her going back and forth, going long stretches of time without seeing one of her parents after having both of us in the same house every day. So anyways, the point of why we're doing this, think, correct me if I'm wrong. 

Lisa Mitchell (03:04.974)
is to give a little bit of perspective as you now being a grown adult, but having lived pretty much your entire childhood as a child of divorce. Yes. Fun fact, I have no memories of prior to when you and my dad split, like of you guys being together ever. Like every time I think back to living in the yellow house on the corner, I remember the bird bath falling on my face and that's it. 

Lisa Mitchell (03:34.092)
That is it. So I, when parent, when I have a bunch of friends who parents have like divorced when they were like older and like they had memories of them living together. And there was just like a bunch of back and forth of like, well, this was my old life versus my new life. And they'd talk about the struggles with that. like, I'm just chilling because I've never once been in a household where both of my parents were together that I remember at least. Yeah. It's a crazy thing. basically the takeaway from that. 

Lisa Mitchell (04:02.088)
is don't worry about making too many memories for your kids first three years of life, because they're not gonna remember anything. And secondly, that if you are in a position, like Divorce Curious is really all about the before, during and after of the divorce process. So if you are thinking divorce is probably the right path for me, but I really should just, we should just stick it out for the kids. I think by the end of this episode, you're gonna have maybe some new perspective. 

Lisa Mitchell (04:31.534)
on that or just some alternative things to kind of consider of why maybe sticking it out for the kids for the long haul is maybe not the best decision and what that experience can feel like growing up really in a divorced household pretty much your entire life. So that's kind of where we're headed today. Kirsten, why don't you tell the folks listening here just a little bit about you. I am 19. I'm currently a first year student. 

Lisa Mitchell (04:58.606)
at the University of Cincinnati, shout out my Bearcats, and I'm studying nursing over there. And really this past year, like right now, we're what, second day into 2025, I've just done a ton of reflection on just my entire life. Like I was a senior in high school, I graduated, I've joined a university that's out of state and I'm in a sorority and my life has just completely changed and that's a lot of self-reflection. But yeah, I feel like me personally, I'm the very... 

Lisa Mitchell (05:24.846)
outgoing type. have a definitely large personality and I love to talk. love to yap anyone's ears off. I'm very much like a giving person and like just like a service led person. So I did play volleyball for like seven years growing up. So that was kind of my little schtick. But yeah, I always tried to leave an active lifestyle and I just like to do things like go out, go get brunch, go shopping. Like I just love to hang out with my friends and family and 

Lisa Mitchell (05:53.858)
Just be around good community of people. See, if you're listening to this and you're afraid that if you get divorced, your kid is gonna crash and burn forever. Just, I mean, she's amazing. She's my favorite human, my very favorite thing in the whole world. And so just, again, exhibit A of you can have a thriving, well-adjusted member of society, even coming from a quote unquote broken home, right? Which I hate that term because I think there's far more. 

Lisa Mitchell (06:21.464)
homes with both parents and it married that are way more destructive than happily divorced parents. But that's a conversation for a talking point for further in our conversation. So why did you want to come on the podcast, Kirsten? You know I was a little surprised when you hit me up with that. I think one of the main reasons that I wanted to come on and just kind of like speak my perspective of things is because when people 

Lisa Mitchell (06:46.798)
who are deciding if a divorce is the right option when there's kids involved and they've been together with that person for a million years and built this life together that it would just be a refreshing take to hear the child's perspective on divorce. what kind of, mean, I've been, what, living 16 years of that divorced child life. So I think I got it pretty down to a good balance of knowing what is reality and what's realistic versus like, 

Lisa Mitchell (07:16.546)
my parents should have stayed together versus them not staying together and what those lives would have looked like. So I don't know. I just think if someone is a mom or a dad or, and they want to come on here and just kind of listen to like, like what should be the move and what's going to benefit my kids the most. think hearing a child's perspective is kind of going to be like, okay, like it's not the end of the world. It's, you know, it's just a small bump in the road that will eventually will sort itself out. 

Lisa Mitchell (07:43.086)
That's the main reason. I love it. No, I think it's so important because like you said, like people kind of have this idea that it's divorce is like the most harmful or catastrophic or negative thing you can do to kids. And I just think it's interesting to hear your perspective. And we'll talk a little bit later about what you think it would have been like, you know, kind of as an adult, you know, as your parents, as adults, you know, what do you think the difference would have been based on what you lived in and what 

Lisa Mitchell (08:12.492)
what it would have felt like to be in a house with us together. So when you were little and you said you don't have a lot of memory of us being together, but what's kind of like when you think about it now, what are kind of your first memories or maybe the feelings that you had of like when it was like, you are living in separate houses, we are kind of going back and forth, you are now spending time without me for whether it was a weekend or whatever, like that's the first time you've ever really been. 

Lisa Mitchell (08:42.158)
away from me or spending a much longer stretch away from your dad. What do you remember about that and kind of figuring that out? Well, I would say just because I was so young, I and like I said prior, I didn't have many memories of us being together. I thought that was just normal. So I am an only child. So I didn't have any like siblings who were older than me who had those memories of what you two being together were like and living in one household together. So I think for me, 

Lisa Mitchell (09:10.688)
and not having any other influence on that. It was just normal. I was like, yeah, I see my dad every other weekend or I'm not spending this weekend at my mom's. I thought that was normal. I genuinely didn't know any different. And I mean, yeah, obviously I missed my parents when I wasn't with them, but it wasn't like, something feels off, something's not right. None of the kids at school, mean, heck, I was in kindergarten. We weren't talking about the demographics of our household at that time. 

Lisa Mitchell (09:39.438)
playing house, okay? So I think no one knew any differently and it wasn't like a shameful thing of like, I my dads, I met my moms this weekend. It was literally just, that was my normal. It was just life. Yeah, it was just life. And I was just existing and kind of going along with what my parents thought was best for them. I didn't have any effect on me really. My biggest trouble at that time was trying to fit all my Legos in my backpack to go take it to one person's house to the other. So. 

Lisa Mitchell (10:07.66)
It was normal. was just growing up. So when did it hit your radar? When do you think you really started to understand, my family is different than other people's family or my parents, everybody else's parents live together or a lot of people's parents live in the same house and they stay at the same house all the time and I don't. Do you have any memory or recollection of when you were kind of like, this isn't maybe like everybody else? 

Lisa Mitchell (10:33.236)
I don't think there was like one defining moment that was kind of like, my family is different than others. I will say probably one of the most notable times where I noticed it was when I would start having sleepovers at other people's houses. And I realized, like both mom and dad are in the house. And when I had, when I started having best friends and sleepovers and we'd go to like birthday parties or we would do fun things with other people's families, I would be like, wait, like both of the parents are still together. 

Lisa Mitchell (11:03.096)
They live in one house. And I think one of the biggest things for me growing up was I'd be like, I can't, I'm at my dad's this weekend. Or I can't, I'm at my mom's this weekend. When people didn't have that excuse or they didn't like have that coming up all the time for them or using that as a reason why they couldn't do something, then that's when I started kind of realizing that like, okay, maybe this is a everybody situation. Maybe I'm kind of the odd one out here. And honestly, I wouldn't say that started happening until like elementary school. Like up until I was about like, 

Lisa Mitchell (11:32.078)
I don't even know, like first grade is when I had my first sleepover. But like when I started going to other people's houses, I think I was in like third or fourth grade. So I was like nine, 10, like honestly up until that point, I just thought that that was like how everybody else's households were. And then I just kind of came to that realization being like, okay. But it wasn't like a catastrophic event. Like it wasn't like, my goodness, put everything down. My parents, like this is a normal. No, it was just like, okay. Like other people do things differently. And then I just moved on. 

Lisa Mitchell (12:02.208)
there wasn't a time where maybe you felt like, well, did you feel like it was a negative thing or like, did you feel like embarrassed by it or weird about it? Like, was there ever anybody ever make you feel bad about it or weird about it? Or was that just not really like a thing for you? It really wasn't a thing, honestly. Like, I feel like, I mean, especially where we live, everyone is charged to like that, like traditional family style. I feel like no one ever put me down about it. No one ever made me feel weird about it. 

Lisa Mitchell (12:31.39)
I didn't really like share it at time, but I'd just be like, I'm going to my mom's this weekend. And they're like, wait, what? Like, why do you have two separate houses? So I think it was me trying to like explain that to them, being like, like my parents aren't together. But like people were just like, OK. And then just moved on. Like it was never like a thing that I got made fun of for or like prevented people from being friends with me. It was just I will say, though, I don't know if you already have one of these questions, but the parents perspective on inviting a child of divorce into their home. 

Lisa Mitchell (13:00.8)
I will say I did have a couple of run-ins with that where they were very like weird around me. Okay, so more like what? Okay, so I'm not gonna name names on here obviously. Well, no. But I used to be friends with this one girl and her parents were married and I would go over to her house pretty regularly and whenever I would talk with her mom because her dad was like always at work. But whenever I talked to her mom when we were hanging out, she was always very 

Lisa Mitchell (13:30.566)
odd about the phrasing and her attitude towards me about having a divorced child or like me being a divorced child. Do you think she was trying to be more careful with you or like thought she was being thoughtful of your feelings or was she being like intrusive or inquisitive or like what did that feel like to you at the time? Honestly, I don't even know how to explain it. Like I don't think I started realizing that until I was like much older that I was being treated differently because of it. And it's not the first time that happened either. Like I would have like several instances like 

Lisa Mitchell (14:00.558)
one-off birthday parties or like, I'd be like, oh yeah, like, I don't know, like would just be like small little like microaggressions that I didn't realize until much later where she would like, this mom would just kind of be like, who's picking you up today, your mom or your dad? And then she'd just have this like weird attitude about it. And just kind of like, would never like try to talk about it with me. Like I'd be like, and this was older, I was probably like intermediate school at the time. And she was just like, I kind of started to realize it a little bit more as I got. 

Lisa Mitchell (14:30.56)
older, but she would just be very careful about trying not to talk about it. And it was almost like it was like a taboo subject that she wasn't comfortable speaking on. And I think that's like one of the fears I think when I was thinking about, like what kind of damage am I gonna do if we get divorced or how is this gonna impact you? I think it's one of the things I was afraid of. And I think one of the things that's probably holding a lot of people back is 

Lisa Mitchell (14:58.52)
feeling like I would set my child up to be singled out or excluded or set you up as a target to be made fun of or to feel like for you to feel shame about it or whatever. Like I think there's a lot of me like projecting how my feelings from my adult point of view onto you as a kid. And it doesn't sound like maybe that was necessarily your experience, but. 

Lisa Mitchell (15:24.718)
I think that's one of the fears when you're in the process and you're like, gosh, this marriage really doesn't necessarily feel like the right thing for me long-term or it's not healthy or it's not safe or whatever, but like, gosh, I don't wanna quote unquote do this to my kids. And I think there's a do this as in changing your life and creating uncertainty and disrupting your routine. But then I think the other part of the like, do this to your kid thought is like, 

Lisa Mitchell (15:50.43)
negatively impact you socially or at school or how your friends perceive you or whatever. I don't, and again, I think as part of it's a generational difference. Like I didn't have a ton of friends or people around me that had divorced parents and my parents weren't divorced. So it's like, gosh, if your parents were divorced or got divorced, was kind of like a big deal, right? But it sounds like maybe I worried about that a little too much. Maybe. So surprising that I would be worried about it too much. 

Lisa Mitchell (16:18.79)
Honestly, I give my spiel on the whole microaggression thing and like just because I just started realizing that like within the past couple of months as I was like because I brought up the idea of wanting to come on the podcast with you and talk about my experience and then I started thinking about like my experience growing up as a kid and then I just started realizing it but it was only with one or two parents and it was never like I ever got like bullied at school or my teachers made me feel weird about it or 

Lisa Mitchell (16:47.054)
I don't even know. It never impacted my way of life and made it harder for me in social situations or school situations or anything like that. It was just kind of like that one or two parents that were weird about it. And in the end, they're the odd ones out because you're the only one that has a problem with it, babe. That is not on me. Right. Well, and I think too, like, 

Lisa Mitchell (17:12.238)
I know that like not every divorce results in kind of the level of, I guess, presence of both parents. Like I think in your situation, it wasn't as obvious because like we both pretty much showed up at everything. Like from a co-parenting perspective, an involvement perspective, like anything that required two parents for you for the most part, like once you got kind of first grade and beyond when we were living back in the same city again, both parents showed up. 

Lisa Mitchell (17:41.546)
as much as we could. And that's a whole nother episode. Yeah, that's not gonna fit into one episode, I fear. Our parenting dynamics will be a future episode here at Divorce Curious, because that's a bigger conversation. But I just think from a perception standpoint, maybe other people, because they saw that your mom and dad were there for things, and we were there together, and cordial, or getting along, or having teamwork together for your benefit. 

Lisa Mitchell (18:09.646)
people were like, oh, like it's, it's cool. Like it wasn't a high conflict, at least a visibly high conflict situation. And we didn't make other people feel weird when we were in the same place at the same time. And we both showed up for you. Which kudos to y'all for doing that. Cause that would have been a lot more interesting and damaging than, than one might have thought of previously to separating. So, I mean, you have, you have an interesting take on 

Lisa Mitchell (18:39.05)
living the experience at the age that you were and then understanding now, like you've always been super emotionally intelligent and you've always been very introspective and you've always been able to like read between the lines and pick up nuance on things, which really is frustrating and also awesome. But sometimes it would be a lot cooler if you were oblivious or a lot easier for me if you were oblivious, but there's not. So I'm curious to know, 

Lisa Mitchell (19:07.82)
We'll stick on the co-parenting topic here for a second. So is there anything that you in retrospect as you're reflecting on like your experiences having divorced parents that maybe you thought was one way and now you know is different or like you appreciate differently now or you wish was different now kind of knowing what you know now versus what you lived then like? I definitely think showing up was a big thing. Like if 

Lisa Mitchell (19:37.356)
that dynamic would have shifted more and there was like more of one parent and less of the other or just like complete cutoff of one parent that I feel like would have been a lot more difficult to deal with and like understand as a child. But at my age now where I'm looking back and realizing like if y'all would have like stayed together like no divorce, nothing, no separation, that would have been so much more damaging. 

Lisa Mitchell (20:05.376)
and traumatizing to me as a child than if y'all had separated because... Tell me about that. Yes. Say more. Yes. So I'm legally in the United States. I'm an adult. And I think as I got older and I've learned to view people as adults and specifically, mean, family members like mom, dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, like I view them as adults and their own human being. Like I don't view them as, you're just my mom or you're just my grandma. 

Lisa Mitchell (20:34.53)
and you have no flaws, I now view it as like, we're all human beings. We all have flaws, we all have personalities and different mindsets on things. And so I think as I got to know both you and my dad as adults and people, individual people, I realized like, my goodness, thank God that y'all separated because the interactions that I have between you versus my dad versus like, 

Lisa Mitchell (21:01.994)
imagining like you two in the same household. Like there would have been like just so much wrong with that dynamic and so many more years of therapy that would have needed to have been had because I realized how like y'all talk about each other versus like in one way versus the other like talking about one parent. And I'm just like, my goodness y'all. Like it just, would have been so much worse and just 

Lisa Mitchell (21:30.41)
a lot more toxic household energy if you always would have stayed together versus separated. And I'm just, very glad that you guys did separate. I couldn't thank y'all enough for that because knowing how the two of you are now and like who you are as individuals versus like married, like husband and wife, traditional household, it would have been so much harder if you guys had stayed together and had more kids. Like if I had siblings and then you tried to get, 

Lisa Mitchell (21:59.47)
separated, I feel like that would have been 10 times harder. Because then there's more children involved and you have older children who do remember you guys being together and those memories might not have always been that pleasant. And so I just think dynamic wise, it would have been so much harder if you guys had stayed versus you being like, peace out. And I think A, I agree. Like I feel like the right decisions were made and that there were the right reasons and intentions behind those decisions. 

Lisa Mitchell (22:29.634)
I agree with you, it would have gotten worse. Longevity would not have done us any favors. I don't feel like. And I think there was a time where, I think we've both always been really careful, especially when you were little about like, we were both very much on board of. 

Lisa Mitchell (22:48.384)
not saying terrible things about each other, bashing each other. think frustration, like just the frustration of co-parenting and managing things is gonna come out. Like you can't hide all of that. can't censor it all. Right, but there wasn't any like major smear campaigns or anybody like your dad's a terrible person. know, like I think we kind of agreed upfront that we would try to manage those conversations and feelings between the two of us and not put you in play. Yeah. Right. And we had plenty of really difficult 

Lisa Mitchell (23:18.568)
not great conversations, but we tried to do that without involving you. I think there does come a point when we both kind of decided like, and a lot of it was because of you because of how emotionally mature you were. You're clued in, you're smart, you pay attention, you ask questions, you see what you see. Like there comes a part I think where we both were, I mean, we kind of quit managing the narrative. Yeah, I was gonna, yeah. 

Lisa Mitchell (23:46.444)
speak a little bit on that, And I think we just kind of let you start realizing the good, the bad and the ugly that you directly observed and experienced between the two of us. And I think it was appropriate. Like you were old enough, you had great discernment, you were at a point where it was okay for you to start just seeing adults as flawed people, like whether it was your parents or anybody else, right? Like, and that's kind of a hard thing. 

Lisa Mitchell (24:15.712)
I remember when I started realizing that my parents were flawed people with full emotions in their own lives that weren't just centered around my experience. I kind of wish I didn't sometimes and still do, but I think there just comes a point where you just have to let people start managing their own relationship directly without 

Lisa Mitchell (24:38.382)
I don't want to say taking the bullets, right? But there was a level of protection, I think, that we both did for your benefit and with good intentions. And at some point, you got to just throttle back on that a little bit and let you start deciding what type of relationship you're going to have with somebody. So I would love to hear about your experience or when you noticed that. Yeah, honestly, I want to say I was, geez, probably like 14 or 15 when I like 

Lisa Mitchell (25:07.342)
truly started seeing my parents as parents. And like you said, like I feel like I've always been emotionally mature or at least emotionally clued in on more adult topics. And so I think at that point, I had just started high school and I was trying to manage that big transition from junior high to high school. And I just think once I started getting exposed to more people and more things, and there was a point in time where I 

Lisa Mitchell (25:36.984)
quit playing the sport that I'd been playing almost my entire childhood. And I think that's when I truly got to see the difference in my parents as like individual people. And what I mean by that is volleyball in that sport specifically brought both of my parents together. They would always show up to all the tournaments that they could and like coordinated on logistics of, who's taking her where, where are we spending the night, blah, blah, blah, blah, Both doing individual things, but. 

Lisa Mitchell (26:05.25)
showing up for the same purpose. And I think when I quit volleyball as my choice, as I'm like, this is not serving me this anymore, it's very toxic, like I had a bunch of coaches ruin it for me. I think that's when I really saw how my parents were gonna show up for me on an individual basis versus something that they had been forced to show up for the past seven years. And once my... 

Lisa Mitchell (26:30.146)
parents stopped kind of being in that same space of like, don't have to do this anymore. Like we don't have to show up and be cordial to each other anymore. And like, there's really no external thing that keeping us in that same forced space other than raising our child individually. I think that's when the barrier went down of like, we're gonna protect each other's image to our child. And there is also just some like major 

Lisa Mitchell (26:58.702)
kind of events that happened in high school that brought those individual characteristics out from both of my parents. And I got to see who they really were for the first time. And I'm like, okay, like I am not judging you anymore based on the point where I've like, you're my mom and my dad. I view you perfectly know. Like that was the point where I'm like, you guys are two individual human beings who have whole lives and personalities and flaws and opinions on how you view certain topics and whatnot. 

Lisa Mitchell (27:28.686)
And I think I was comparing that to what I had kind of formed on my own at that point of like what I believe is right and wrong and how to view certain situations. And so I think that is when I really saw how different you were than what that image growing up was. Like, oh, my mom, my dad are perfect. Like they get along great and blah, blah, blah. No, they really don't get along. Like, let's be so for real. Like, for being honest on here, they don't get along. Looking back, I really appreciated the amount of effort and 

Lisa Mitchell (27:58.528)
how hard it must have been for them to get along in those spaces for me. They weren't doing it to do it like they both showed up and they were both being nice to each other and not making it awkward for their parents or for me because they wanted to. And even though they could have both been absent, they could have not gone along. They could have made it really, really difficult on me to show up and play the sport and be difficult for them to be supportive in something that I was passionate about, but they didn't. They chose to. 

Lisa Mitchell (28:26.432)
show up independently and work together, even though it might've been awkward or difficult or not the best timing for them and made those sacrifices for me. And so that just made me more grateful and appreciative looking back on my entire childhood. They could have made it a lot worse than it was. They honestly could have. Like it could have been, it could have been a lot more difficult and just not budging and like just very, very hard on me when they 

Lisa Mitchell (28:56.046)
didn't do that for me. Like they just, they showed up and made it lot easier. So yeah, I feel like we had a good, we had a good run. I mean, we had, we made it through most of your high school without any major tension or without any major conflict or bad vibes to keep it simple. But it did get a little bit harder as you got a little bit older and more independent and dug in deeper on your beliefs and advocated for yourself more. And you know, there was a difference in approach there and 

Lisa Mitchell (29:24.994)
there was a little bit more friction and tension and conflict and you weren't as protected from that as you had been previously. But I feel like as a mom, you needed to have that experience of sooner rather than later seeing who we were, like flaws and all. And having the data points you needed to be like, okay, I'm gonna start forming the relationship I wanna have with these people going forward as adults. And I need those data points to know. No, I agree. 

Lisa Mitchell (29:53.262)
Yeah. No, I'm good. I'm just listening. I'm listening. You look like you were getting a little feely about something. No, I'm good. I am. I'm just checking in. I'm straight chilling. I'm just checking on you, babe. Appreciate it. Appreciate it from the opposite end of the couch. Yeah. I did not give her these questions before we got started. I am really curious to know one of the situations that you had as a child of divorce is you 

Lisa Mitchell (30:21.846)
rather quickly gained basically a new family. Yes, straight out the gate. Really quickly. Yes. went from low key with your mom and dad individually to like your mom still individually, but your dad plus three. Yes. So give us the short version of that and how that played with you, how that impacted you. Any recommendations you have for anybody else going forward with that? Yes. So timeline wise, 

Lisa Mitchell (30:50.552)
parents got separated at three and I met my stepmom for the first time when I was four. So I'm gonna leave that there. She wasn't your stepmom yet? She wasn't my stepmom yet, no. She was just a girlfriend but when I met her, I think it was like a few weeks after that they decided that they were gonna move in together. So I met her and then the like second or third time seeing her, we moved in. So from my recollection, I remember her. I remember me and her one day, I met her. 

Lisa Mitchell (31:20.364)
And then my two older stepsisters, one of them is 10 years older than me and the other is 12 years older than me. I met them all the same day. And then it literally felt like two weeks later, there were boxes at my dad's house and we were moving into their place on the south side of Indy. So I don't know. Like I feel like, to me it was very quick, but they didn't get engaged and married until I was about like nine. Yeah, they got married when I was nine, I'm pretty sure. So I just think it was very odd because at least for me, 

Lisa Mitchell (31:49.442)
these girls were already in high school by the time I had met them. And so me being four years old and then having a freshman in high school and an eighth grader, there's really no middle ground. There is no like stuff in common. Like there's nothing to like, you know, they're not gonna wanna play dolls with me. They are in high school. Like they're not gonna wanna go to the kiddie land park at Kings Island. They're not gonna wanna like just do random arts and crafts with me. Cause they already have their lives. 

Lisa Mitchell (32:19.33)
basically, like they were already old enough and mature enough to know that their experience on their parents getting divorced was a lot separate than mine because they had an entire 14, 15 years of them living prior to when their parents got separated. So at that point, that's all they'd ever known. And for me, I didn't know nothing. I was just walking around clueless of how other people's lives were going on. So I think even though we did move in with them, I was still an only child. They tried to, 

Lisa Mitchell (32:48.332)
do as best as they could with trying to make me feel welcome and they tried to be relatable with me and like tried to do things that were fun for me. But all in all, looking at it, like there really was no actual like sibling bond there because they were just so advanced in their life versus me. Like by the time they were married, my dad and Sandra, I was like I said, I was nine. So that would have made my youngest step-sibling a freshman in college and the older one a junior in college. 

Lisa Mitchell (33:18.094)
So a nine-year-old versus a junior in college, there is not a whole lot in common with the two of them. They're not on the same emotional maturity or an intelligence level. I hadn't even gone past my timetables at that point. So you're doing junior in college, about to graduate the next year, and I'm over here still playing with my Barbies and Legos. So I think mentally and in a sibling relational state, I was still an only child. 

Lisa Mitchell (33:45.94)
but even though I legally had two older stepsisters and a stepmom. So it was definitely interesting for sure because I lived with the younger of the two stepsisters for a really long time. Like she was living with us while in high school and they still were going back from my stepmoms to their dad's place. So there was like that traveling back and forth. And then she moved in with us a little bit after she graduated from college. So. 

Lisa Mitchell (34:11.64)
just to get on our feet and whatnot. So I think, but even then, like she was already a college graduate and I was still in middle school. So it was just, it's different. Like she has her big girl job and her car and all these bills and whatever. And I'm over here just playing volleyball and just working on seventh, eighth grade stuff while she's trying to get her life together. So she doesn't really have time to like hang out with an eighth grader or seventh grader. So I don't know, I definitely. 

Lisa Mitchell (34:40.085)
As I've gotten older though, now that I'm a freshman in college, I'm now relatable. Because now I'm living the time that they're reminiscing on. You're in their good old days I'm in their prime right now. This is my prime right now, heck, I guess, from everything that they've been telling me. So I think now that they're like, back in college, I did this. And now they're putting more effort in trying to build that relationship. But even now, the older of the two is married and has a three-year-old. 

Lisa Mitchell (35:08.806)
You know, like the other lives downtown. Like, it's still until I'm at that point where we're like in our thirties and I, you know, we're all married and we all have kids. Then I feel like we'll finally have that like somewhat of a real sibling bond because there's something, there's so much there to allay on. But now we're like, we're getting closer to that point, but we're not quite there just because they're so much older than me versus where I'm at in my life. So you still kind of got 

Lisa Mitchell (35:37.898)
only child attention for the time. But you had like extended family now by default. So it was like you kind of had sisters, but not really, but you did. were the only child vibe still and got all the... Yeah, which honestly, like I never didn't get along with the older two just because they were always so busy that yes, they were in the home, but we didn't have all that many opportunities to connect on like that sibling-esque level. 

Lisa Mitchell (36:06.2)
But I mean, now I'm very grateful for them and we get along great. It's just still, they still see me as that like really young stepsister. I'm just not all that relatable quite yet. Like I'm getting there. Don't get me wrong. When they're telling me about their glory days down in Southern Indiana, partying up in college, like sure, go for it. But I mean, now I just, think there's still a lot of distance between that and they'll, right now they're like. 

Lisa Mitchell (36:32.888)
quote unquote, not like my real siblings. Yeah, so you kind of the blessing and the curse of like not having other kids all up in your space all the time. you feel optimistic that you guys will continue. Like, it's not like, now that you're all up and out of the house, that they're not part of your life anymore. No, I mean, they still like try to make an effort, but it's like, it's just, it's different. Like I've been around my step family and not even just like my stepsisters, like my extended like cousins, aunts, uncles. I've been around them since I was four. 

Lisa Mitchell (37:02.636)
And there's still a lot of awkwardness. Even this past Christmas I was over there, they've never, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but they've just, they've never felt like the way that I feel with like your side of the family or my dad's side of the family, like blood related siblings, which, I don't, I don't think it's just a lack of effort. just think because- You missed a lot of context. Yeah. When the families were family and together when everybody was little. When they all would go to the lake and do this and this and that and had all these traditions. And then I just popped in and now like, 

Lisa Mitchell (37:33.07)
I think it's so different. And even my cousins on my step family side are like relatively my age. It's just, I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest on all three sides. So it's like with these like age gaps, it's kind of harder to relate. And because they already have all these traditions and I really only show up for holidays. It's never like, I don't know. It's so like came in on like season four. I did. Of the show and you're like. 

Lisa Mitchell (37:58.38)
the out of town friend. Yeah, like I only make special cameos every now and then and special appearances. Like a friend of the show. And it's like if you are on Real Housewives, you'd a friend of the show. Exactly. And we get along like they've never once singled me out or like made it feel really awkward. Like I wasn't supposed to be there, but they also are just it's it's it's hard to explain until you're in that space of you're my family, but not really. But like, I don't know, it's just very 

Lisa Mitchell (38:27.978)
surface level. I'll put that. That's a really good word. Surface level relationships. Everybody's polite. Everybody's kind. Yeah. chats, but nobody's like super, you don't feel like you're super invested with them and they're not really like super invested with Like they wouldn't show up to my stuff. I wouldn't show up to their stuff, but we'd all like come around on holidays. Like that's really what it is. Yeah. That makes sense. Any other thoughts on step families? Cause I know that's another big worry for people. You know, like honestly that was like my, 

Lisa Mitchell (38:57.624)
Biggest hesitation, my biggest hesitation in getting divorced was who is going to be in your life next. Because if I'm not in that spot, somebody's gonna be in that spot. And I get no control, no say so. Like I just get whoever he picks to be part of your life. I don't have any say outside of whatever the parenting agreement is and whatever the state child. 

Lisa Mitchell (39:24.824)
parenting rules are, like I don't get to say anything about anything. And that as your mother was probably the single most terrifying aspect of getting divorced, just knowing it was a little rocky start early on about, I was like, please Lord, not her. But I will say, I will say, I thank the Lord above every day and I thank her directly. Yes. 

Lisa Mitchell (39:53.294)
Oh my gosh. And I got a great other mother figure for you to have in your life. Like she is gold. I'm so, lucky. Like of all the ways it could turn out and the horror stories that my friends have about- Oh my gosh, yes. The stepmoms or the other girls in and out of their kids' lives. it is insane. You know, I have guy friends who's- 

Lisa Mitchell (40:16.558)
ex-wives are bringing all sorts of characters around their kids. It's It's both ways. It's the most vulnerable, terrible, terrifying, scary, awful thing to know that someone else is getting to have that type of close relationship with your kid and get to live in the same space because not everybody is safe. Once that was sign sealed and delivered and I knew she was going to be in your... She was the one in that spot. was like, thank the Lord. Yes. My stepmom is... 

Lisa Mitchell (40:46.584)
Heaven sent above. I will say though, I was four when I met her. And at that point, I'd kind of gained some consciousness of what's going on. Like my parents aren't together. Like this is a woman coming in and trying to take on, because okay, four year olds, we were not the most level set minded people. I'm gonna be so for real. I thought she was home wrecking. I thought she's the reason my parents aren't together. 

Lisa Mitchell (41:15.88)
I remember having just meltdowns at your house after spending a weekend at my dad's because I'm like, this new girl, she's gonna take over. She's gonna be my new mom. don't want her, but like just meltdowns because I didn't know. I was four years old and I had no clue even the slight clue of what the demographics would have looked like if y'all would have stayed together or y'all have gotten back together. Like that would have been a show in itself, but I just, was so. 

Lisa Mitchell (41:43.946)
emotional and I was just in Chicago for New Year's with my dad and stepmom and we were even talking about it how they didn't think that she was gonna break me. Like they thought like I was just gonna hate her forever and ever and ever and ever. Here we are today, we're literally best friends. Like what are you even talking about? Like I could not imagine my life without Sandra in it. Like I love Sandra, she's just amazing. And even if like, God forbid my parents do separate, like I would still, she would still be my stepmother. maybe legally, no, but like, 

Lisa Mitchell (42:13.166)
She's literally my blood sister, come on now, like don't play with me. But no, she's definitely, I will say it was, I think the way that they approached it, like going on as I got older was good because she was, she never like took on the role of being another parent. She never like disciplined me. She never like made all these insane rules, da da da da, right? Like she was just there to like help support my dad and like help support me with certain situations, but she never like, she knew her role. 

Lisa Mitchell (42:42.582)
She was like, in her lane. She did a very good job of staying in her lane. She's very respectful. As a step parent. Yes, she's never spoke ill ever of either parent. So I just, think I got really lucky. You got really lucky. I hit the jackpot. Yes, she, I love her so much. I don't think that's everyone's situation. And I definitely think that we got really lucky, but this was like the best case scenario. And now I have that other. 

Lisa Mitchell (43:11.182)
parental figure who I can go to for advice or if I didn't feel comfortable telling something to my dad, I would tell it to Sandra or like it was just like that other person in my life that I knew would have my back no matter what. And I think it definitely helped growing up and when I came to realize who people were as individuals, I think that helped with it too, having that other supportive figure in the house. Yeah. And I can say from my point of view, I mean, because again, when you're co-parenting, 

Lisa Mitchell (43:39.992)
post divorce, you're co-parenting with whoever your ex spouse is with. Like they are part of the equation, good, bad, or indifferent. And I think that was actually what made it easier for us. When you were doing travel volleyball and we were all holed up in a convention center for a weekend together, we actually sat together and enjoyed chatting and talking and seeing each other. And I think that is probably part. 

Lisa Mitchell (44:07.574)
we were talking earlier about how we both showed up for everything all the time. I think that her presence and her ability to run interference if needed or, and she would back my play. She would. I respect that lot of, because I know that that did not go over well. No, and I will say too, when I say that both of my parents showed up, I meant all three of my parents, because Sandra was there every single freaking weekend, sitting in convention center, traveling, getting on planes. 

Lisa Mitchell (44:36.526)
She was with it. And I think because her girls were already older and in college and had their own lives, she was able to, but it was also like, if she didn't wanna be there, she wasn't gonna be there. If she didn't care about me, she wouldn't have put in the time and effort and the money and the miles to come see me play and support me and stay in the most ghetto hotels in the middle of Ohio if she genuinely didn't wanna be there. If she didn't love me, if she didn't care about me. 

Lisa Mitchell (45:05.086)
I will say I don't think everyone is as lucky as I was, but she was quite literally another mother, even though I originally that was not what I wanted, but it's what the Lord told me that I needed. So here we are. I'm super lucky that that was your experience, because again, that really was like that. The one thing that would have kept me from getting divorce was my fear of who would then get access to you. Yeah. And that's a totally like real. And that keeps so many people up at night. 

Lisa Mitchell (45:34.894)
because if you're to the point where you're getting divorced from somebody, you don't really trust their judgment a whole lot anyways. And so that extends to like, okay, well, what is their judgment going to be with what happens next? The year after divorce does not historically, it's not a good look. Not a good look. Good decisions are not made normally. Yeah, I would say honestly, the first like two years or three years post divorce. It takes a minute depending on how long you're with person. So that's a good segue, okay? 

Lisa Mitchell (46:04.27)
Let's talk about, well, so I'm curious to know, I have ridden through with some, varying degrees, the good, the bad and the ugly of your take on relationships now. I'm curious to know, like now that you're an adult and we won't. 

Lisa Mitchell (46:19.918)
dive too deep on this, but I'm just curious. I'm like, this might be a whole other podcast episode. Hello? This is the longest one I've ever done, we're gonna keep going. Hey. don't get to sit and chat with you. I know, I'm a special guest. You are the marquee guest of this Come on now. all seasons. Of all seasons. You are my presidential candidate interview. Hey, hit me up whenever. Okay, so do you think that growing up, 

Lisa Mitchell (46:47.906)
with divorced parents has impacted how you view relationships or what you expect out of relationships. And do you think it has been hurtful or helpful or indifferent or what does that look like for you? How does that factor into it when you're like evaluating people to invest your time in? Can I just say all the above? Honestly, because there are pros. I'm not gonna lie, there are pros, but there are cons. 

Lisa Mitchell (47:16.918)
And I want to say starting off with a con, I would say like the biggest con is like, if we're gonna get real philosophical, it's like the two people that came together to create me didn't work out and do not have that love for each other anymore. And so I think growing up seeing like, my parents don't get along, they don't love each other, like that was hard. And I feel like that has kind of like... 

Lisa Mitchell (47:42.658)
I don't want to say like skewed my image of a healthy relationship, but I also don't think it like helped support the image of what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like. And so I don't think I've ever really had that like keystone example of what a healthy, loving, parental and familiar relationship look like as like an example for me, you know? And so I will say it has helped into what not look for. 

Lisa Mitchell (48:11.82)
and a partner and to what, how to spot the red flags and how like when enough is enough and almost like trained me. I mean, don't get me wrong. I've had, I've had to learn it the hard way from my own experience of what to look for. There's the academic research and there's the experiential research. And I fear to say that I am a hands-on learner. So how to go through that on my own, but I will say, I mean, I feel like 

Lisa Mitchell (48:40.664)
You don't have that cookie cutter relationship of like, like this is what like my parents made it, my grandparents made it, like I have to make it. So I will say it did eliminate that pressure of having to have that like perfect relationship when I get older and the perfect marriage and perfect family and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like we stay together no matter what. Like honestly, I think that's such a toxic mindset. Like in this day and age, like people just, that's not gonna be a whole other episode too. But I will say that it did eliminate that pressure of having to 

Lisa Mitchell (49:10.7)
than produce my own perfect relationship with another person. But also, I don't know, I also knew that I'm a very independent person. And so when it came, when it was time for me to start dating, I knew that I was gonna have to learn things the hard way. And I was gonna have to have my own life experiences to kinda see what worked and what didn't for me and what my standards were in the first place. And also like what my red flags are, or not like what my red flags are, but like more so like, 

Lisa Mitchell (49:39.672)
how to identify other people's red flags and how to notice when something isn't healthy in a relationship versus when something is healthy and like what's, you know, good amount of obsessed versus like being dependent on a person. So I will say it didn't give me that blueprint of what a relationship was supposed to look like, but it also like, I knew that I was gonna have to learn that for myself. So I don't, I mean, when it came to my dating, I really didn't have an influence, I would say. And still like doesn't, I don't know. 

Lisa Mitchell (50:08.846)
No, that's it's It's a good question. It's hard to explain. I'm just like, I've never really asked you that before. assumptions of like things that might make you more or less likely to be excited about. But I hadn't really ever asked you. Yeah, like I don't there's like a basic level of like standards of which someone needs to provide for a healthy relationship. 

Lisa Mitchell (50:31.8)
But then there's also like different love languages. Like not everyone is the same in how they perceive a healthy relationship. And like what may be like, this person is checking off all my boxes. Another person could be like, wow, that's only checking off like two. So I think it's just, it's different for each individual. boundaries and communication. Well, yeah, and that too, boundaries. like, if you, what you consider cheating is another thing too. I don't know. I feel like some people are more open and more flexible when it comes to 

Lisa Mitchell (51:00.498)
what they want out of a relationship versus other people are like, nope, like you looked at a girl the wrong way, we're done. I think it's a little bit different and especially like that generational difference too. Like you guys are Gen X, I'm Gen Z, the standards of what was normalized and what is expected out of relationship is a little bit different in your generation versus my generation, which I don't think a lot of people take into account of in this day and age. Yeah. To be honest, but. 

Lisa Mitchell (51:28.862)
That's my take on that. Okay, so what do you think we could have done differently or better or not done maybe that would have been really helpful for you growing up with divorced parents? Do you feel like we got anything really right? Do you feel like we got anything really wrong? Honestly, I'm going to say that 

Lisa Mitchell (51:55.842)
And you're not gonna hurt my feelings. No, no, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm just this question, I feel like has to be based on the individual. Like there was nothing that you two did as co-parents that had a really large influence on my life. And what I mean by that is like there wasn't like one monumental screw up or there wasn't like, I feel like what you guys did very well was when I was younger, like communicate and I feel like be more open to things and like. 

Lisa Mitchell (52:24.75)
like just show up for me. I could, like as co-parents, I feel like you guys did a really good well on that, like faults or like things that you could have done better is based on the individual. Like I don't feel like there was anything co-parenting wise where you guys didn't deliver. I think it would just be like, it was like your individual relationship with us each at that point. Yes, yes, correct. Got it. So I don't know how much detail you want me to go into on that, but that's like more of like a personal thing. Yeah. 

Lisa Mitchell (52:53.662)
I think really what I wanted, know, the reason I was asking that is as somebody's listening to this and they're thinking, okay, well, like, if I do this, what should I really make sure? I think I have, I have one. I have an example. I would say as I got older, flexibility. Yeah. And what I mean by that. And like, I feel like both you and my dad were not like guilty of this, but also like you guys both like had moments where you guys just weren't super flexible on like, 

Lisa Mitchell (53:21.804)
what the child needs most. Like if your child is saying, hey, like I would really appreciate it if we could just, I'm really busy if my schedule's going on, especially if the kid's working or in sports, like you gotta be more flexible because not only are they like trying to either do their passion or like make money, but they're also a full-time student. And that's hard as it is balancing. And let me tell you, a child of divorce, like when you are going, 

Lisa Mitchell (53:48.042)
one week at a time, or we used to do like every other day growing up and that was terrible. bananas. Terrible. But I would say like when there is a set schedule and that child is asking for flexibility, you gotta give the green flag on that. Yeah. Because they are managing, first off, being a teenager is hard because you're learning so much about yourself and you've got high school and all the high school drama that follows with it. But it's also like your full-time student, your 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. every single day, Monday through Friday, 

Lisa Mitchell (54:17.17)
And if you're wanting to go to higher education colleges, they're looking for extracurriculars, they're making sure you're working, like you're a well-rounded student. So maintaining those academics, making sure you're socialized, whether that be sports or clubs or music or whatever you may be involved with in high school. And on top of that, no one wants to be broke. So everyone and their mama I knew in high school, my friends at least, all had jobs. Like we're all working and involved in clubs and trying to fit. 

Lisa Mitchell (54:44.728)
personal time and socializing time with your friends and your family on top of that. And then having to worry about packing your bag every single week and just uprooting and lifting your entire life and moving it to the other house. That's a lot. It's a lot of pressure on a student and it's different dynamics based off a place. I I feel like our relationship has always been really strong and tight and like very open versus my dad's. It's a lot more like we don't really have that traditional father daughter bond. 

Lisa Mitchell (55:13.656)
So it'd be like, I'm completely comfortable at my mom's house. Like the things that I'm allowed to say or do or whatever is completely different than at my dad's. So it was like the double life. You made the comment to me. I actually put it in the outline when I was thinking because it's always just been something that stuck with me is like, you made the comment. Cause with me, you're like silly and goofy and you'll like stop and twerk, just walk it across the kitchen or like, you know, like whatever we vocal stuff. Yes. Well, yes. 

Lisa Mitchell (55:42.23)
Yes. We just do. We just exist. Yes. Right. And you made the comment to me once that like the version of you that I know is completely different than the version of you that your dad knows. Yes. And I will stay into that statement every single day. And that was like such, I think I knew it, but like to hear you just say it so like nonchalantly of like you just like code switch basically like parental code switch of like, this is the Kirsten that 

Lisa Mitchell (56:09.87)
lives at your dad's house and this is a Kirsten that lives at your mom's house. hey, it makes me really, really sad and I'm sorry that you've had to like maintain two different identities based on the environment at each house. I understand why you do it, but it makes me sad because I love the version of you that I know. And it makes me sad that he doesn't know that version. Yeah, and he didn't for a really long time. Right, and I feel like now you have more freedom and your relationships Well, now I just don't care. 

Lisa Mitchell (56:39.726)
That's the real thing. Like, as I'm getting into my adulthood, I've become so secure and confident as who I am as a person and what I stand on and what my morals are that I don't care. I don't care. At this point, I'm an adult and like, yeah, I'm a dependent adult. Let's just put it that way. I've got independent things. 

Lisa Mitchell (57:02.414)
But I'm also very dependent on certain things. So I appreciate a good parental assist. Which who wouldn't? But at this time, but I'm going to I'm going to use that independent part of the dependent adult as much as I possibly can. Yeah. And I think there are some events that happened in high school where I stood my ground and was so like, this isn't changing. Like, this is who I am as a person that my dad kind of realized and was like, oh crap. 

Lisa Mitchell (57:31.572)
I raised a resilient one because now it's coming to bite you back in the butt. So I will say that with having divorced parents and having to constantly switch back and forth over to one house to another, you're around different people. around, you have two different rooms if you're lucky enough, you know, and I just, think like the way you speak, act, talk, walk, the things you're allowed to do in the house, it's all different. 

Lisa Mitchell (57:59.618)
depending on the house you live in. Because I mean- You just kind of know you have to adapt to a certain version of yourself to keep peace and make your time at each place. Because some arguments just aren't worth starting. So you might as well just kind of exist under the radar for the week and then hope to get an escape at the other parent's house. Which I will say is a good perk. It's like if you're getting fed up with a parent by the end of the week, you're like, finally it's time to go to my mom's house. 

Lisa Mitchell (58:28.078)
If it's time to go to my dad's house and I can escape this, you know, like I will say like that was kind of nice, especially like if there was some tension on either side of the house or either house, but yeah. And speaking of perks, once your family gets remarried, you get like eight Christmases and eight Thanksgiving's and like the amount of loot that I've simply acquired over the past years is insane. Like last year, cause I, 

Lisa Mitchell (58:56.962)
who I was around, friends, partners, whatever, I had like 11 Christmases. I want you to think about like if there was one piece of advice that you would give to someone that was sitting here, feeling like divorce is probably the right decision for them, but feeling just super worried about what the impact is gonna be on their kids to the point that they like might just stay. Do you have any advice for somebody to think about? I do, and now look, I'm... 

Lisa Mitchell (59:25.55)
I've never had to go through a divorce, but speaking on a child's perspective of divorce, as long as you are showing up and you are doing everything in your power to be there for your kid, your child's gonna turn out just fine. And the amount of potential damage that you could cause by staying in a very toxic or unsafe or unhealthy relationship, 

Lisa Mitchell (59:54.382)
is going to 100 to one damage the child more than if you would just leave. And I think there's such a negative perspective on divorce of like, a failed marriage, a failed this, no babe, like you are saving yourself and your child and your children. And so I think separating yourself from whoever you may be divorcing, whether you're a male, female, whoever, I think given that separation is gonna help. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:00:23.092)
you and your children an immense amount because you're getting rid of that negativity or toxicity that was once causing you so much damage. Because imagine like if that person is treating you that way, eventually it's going to go on to your kids. If your partner is abusive, that's not just going to stay with you. Your children are going to have to witness that partner being abusive to you, or they're going to have to witness the arguments, the screaming, the yelling, the... 

Lisa Mitchell (01:00:49.026)
the microaggressions, the, mom or dad stopped showing up to this because mom or dad got really angry. You know, like it's just gonna cause that divide not only with the children and that partner, but also the children with you. Like if they're like, like I wish dad would leave mom. Like she's just not doing this. Or I wish mom would leave dad. Like this is just not working out. Like they are always arguing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's gonna cause. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:01:12.974)
create so much division amongst your household that there already is between you and your partner and that's just gonna escalate things 10 times more. And so, maybe let the separation work in your favor. Figure out how to do life as a family differently. Yeah, and honestly, I don't think divorce has to end ugly. I think if you and your partner are separating for the right reasons, but you're both agreeing that you want to co-parent and be successful at it, 

Lisa Mitchell (01:01:42.432)
I think that's a viable option. And if not, then you can only control what you can do. And whether that be your effort, your attitude, how you show up, you're the only one that can control that. You are so wise and so brilliant and have such a beautiful heart. And I'm so proud of you. And so, so, so, so grateful for your willingness to just come on and do the real talk and... 

Lisa Mitchell (01:02:10.008)
share your experience and I actually, like I learned a lot. I really did. I learned a lot about your experience. I had some assumptions that were right and some assumptions that were wrong and worried about some things maybe I didn't have to worry about and maybe didn't worry about some things I should have worried more about. Ooh, we're gonna have to debrief then. But yeah, this has been great and it's my greatest privilege in the world to be your mother. so just. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:02:37.932)
I love you so much. I love you too. Thank you for coming on and sharing. I think you sharing your experience now from, you know, age three through 19 now and showing the evolution of your thought process and all of that is just so, so super wise and so helpful. And I think for somebody who's sitting here listening and just stuck out of the fear of what 

Lisa Mitchell (01:03:02.188)
divorce would do to their kids or going to the worst case scenario. think maybe you've given a good case study of like, it's not perfect, but it's not terrible. it's It all works out in the end. That's what I like reminded myself, especially as a kid when it was hard, I'm like, it all will work out in the end. And you just kinda gotta put your faith into that and like, just hope eventually whatever conflict you have going on, whatever. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:03:28.642)
Like if it's really hard and you're confused or especially I feel like kids when they're like a little bit older, they tend to blame themselves for the divorce. And I do have friends, I actually have roommates whose parents divorced when they were older and they tended to blame themselves. But as I got older, they realized like, no, like this was for the better. This was not on me. I mean, just I think eventually once we all get older and mature, we kind of all kind of realize like it was for the better. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:03:56.77)
this is how it should have been all along. I love that. Yeah. Okay. We've given you a lot to think about today. If you are listening to this and you are trying to decide or maybe struggling with guilt or fear or the unknown, like please take time to think about this and reflect on this and hopefully take it as a sign of encouragement of your kids are gonna be okay. It's gonna take a lot of work on both parts, but it's... 

Lisa Mitchell (01:04:23.35)
It's not impossible. You could get a brilliant, amazing, successful, loving, beautiful, articulate, emotionally intelligent child, know, despite. Do you guys hear how she's gassing me up? This is insane. I her so much. is insanity. Okay, well, I think we have like a Dairy Queen run to make. think as our, I mean, you got to take a kid for ice cream after spilling her guts like this, right? So all for your benefit. 

Lisa Mitchell (01:05:20.006)
All for your benefit, Divorce Curious Friends, because I love you and I want you to have as many perspectives, point of views, and stories and resources as you can to make the next best decision for you. So as always, if you found this helpful, please share this episode with someone that you know needs to hear it. Be sure to like, subscribe, comment, wherever you're listening to this episode to. With that, I'm gonna