From "Powerless" to "Empowered": Owning Your Divorce Path with Leah GiaQuinta

In this episode of Divorce Curious, host Lisa Mitchell engages with Leah GiaQuinta, a divorce coach, to explore the complexities of navigating divorce, especially when children are involved. They discuss the emotional challenges, the importance of accountability, and the journey from feeling like a victim to embracing empowerment. 

Leah shares her personal journey into divorce coaching, emphasizing the need for support and understanding during this difficult time. The conversation highlights the significance of creating a safe space for discussions around divorce and the various phases individuals go through in the process.

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Transcript

Lisa Mitchell (00:09.666)
This is the Divorce Curious podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. If you're here, your life and marriage might kinda suck right now, and I've been exactly where you are. At Divorce Curious, we're gonna say the quiet parts out loud. We're gonna sit in the anger, confusion, and disappointment that you're feeling, and talk about what it looks like to go through the before, during, and after.

of being Divorce Curious. I'm glad you're here.

Lisa Mitchell (00:46.37)
Welcome to another episode of Divorce Curious. I'm already jumping the gun. Leah, you just saw me like take off before we even got started here recording. So I'm so excited for y'all to be here today because when I say there are so many stories of so many amazing women who are doing work in this space to help people through being Divorce Curious, I'm talking about my guest today, Leah Giacuenta. Leah, thank you so much.

for joining us here on Divorce Curious and sharing all of your brilliance and experience. Thank you so much. I am so excited to have you. It's so funny, Leah, because I had in the course of like two weeks, no less than like four people, when I told them what I was working on here at Divorce Curious before I even launched, you're like, well, do know Leah Giacuenta? And I'm like, who? And they're like, Leah, like you need to know Leah. And I had like three different people introduce us via text and email.

So congratulations on being like the go-to coach and Sherpa and guiding light for so many people who are going through this process. And I know through my experience of getting to know you that you are definitely somebody that this audience is gonna glean so much wisdom and confidence and clarity by hearing what you have to say today. So thank you for joining us, Leah. Would you mind sharing just

I mean, you got a big story girl, like for sure, but do you mind kind of giving us the quick and dirty of some fun facts about you and how you got into doing this work here? Thank you so much for having me. I'm giggling about your introduction as far as being introduced to you because in thinking about the way that I got started with all of this, I actually had to push through so much resistance.

to claim that this was going to be part of my new chapter. And by that, mean, I can certainly start from the beginning, but part of my post-divorce life design, part of my post-divorce journey was figuring out a new career that fit in with my new life. And I think about

Lisa Mitchell (03:09.742)
putting the pieces back together and they don't necessarily fit perfectly and in contrast, I would maybe compare it more to a mosaic. And a big part of rediscovering and rewriting my story was figuring out how to create a life that included still being able to be present for my four kids that were at home. And my previous career as a physical therapist didn't

necessarily fit in the same way as being a single mom of four kids as it did in a married household. And so when I decided that I was going to pursue coaching as a way to afford myself a little more freedom and flexibility in my post-divorce life, my idea was actually to do health and wellness coaching. Like I said, my background was in physical therapy and that felt like that might fit

a little bit better, but while I was doing a coaching certification course, I had women knocking on my door one after another after another saying, listen, I am in the thick of things with divorce and I just need to know the next best step. I just, can I take a moment of your time? And I kept getting those taps on the shoulder and I kept showing up at my coaching certification program thinking I was going to do

like I said, this health and wellness coaching and I finally got a little quiet and said, no, I've got to lean into this. I got to lean into this. was actually at a certain point, I was just being stubborn by ignoring it, but I had to lean into it was my ego because I think I was not ready to put the word divorce on my business card. So that's why when I hear you bringing this

conversation up with multiple people and saying, I'm creating a safe place to talk about some of these, the places that get quiet and giving an opportunity to amplify these conversations. It makes me giggle at this point to hear, well, my gosh, divorce. Have you talked to Leah G. Quinnon? Because in the very beginning, I had to work through my own resistance of associating my name and my identity with the word divorce.

Lisa Mitchell (05:35.008)
It's a trip, isn't it? Like it's so funny because I feel like we share a very kind of kindred spirit when it comes to being chased down by this. I didn't want to talk about divorce. I mean, there's lots of things I'm interested in. There's all sorts of career stuff and I'd rather talk about, you know, building startups or communication or geez Louise, even like going after VC funding before I want to talk about divorce. There's a million other topics that are way more comfortable and

less vulnerable and can be sanitized more. Like you can really kind of talk in a clinical way and you don't get the option of approaching conversations around divorce like that. So this has been, I joked that this divorce curious lived in my Google docs for 10 years because I didn't want to do it.

Honestly, I still don't really want to do it, but like you, right? I kept coming into these conversations and I kept having people seek me out and I'm a problem solver if there's a need and especially if I can help people by just showing up and gathering smart people that have great experiences. And I'm like, okay, well I can at least do that. But it's funny that we both had a similar level of resistance or hesitancy or, and yet here we are sitting here doing the Divorce Curious podcast and laying a bare.

Being willing to say the quiet parts out loud and the grand vision of helping other people feel a little less alone and a little less ashamed and a little less overwhelmed about life. So, I mean, I applaud you. I applaud us, honestly, because neither one of us want to be here and do with this. And yet, here we are owning something that we could have taken a much more comfortable path, I think, than the one we've chosen. So kudos to you on your bravery and

willingness and I know you mentioned four kids and I was shocked when I met you to hear some of your story and and your kids and they're very much and that like figuring out who they are and in becoming young adults and Navigating territory and a and a now divorced household and I'm always so curious because I know the reaction I got from people When I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do coaching and I'm gonna quit my corporate job

Lisa Mitchell (07:47.17)
go train people in body language and communication, right, as a single mom. It made no sense to people. What was that reaction to your decision to go all in on the divorce coaching? Just like you said, there are so, it feels as if there are so many barriers to talking about this. And for me, and I know that you probably feel the same way, getting specific.

and careful about the way you approach these conversations become even more weighted when you have little listening ears. You know as well as I do that there is a script when it comes to talking about divorce around your kids. And I'm still very careful about that. And that is why it was even more imperative that once I decided to do this, I had to be very careful in the way

that I thread the needle. And I think that that's the reason why a lot of people don't talk about it is because there, and rightly so, there's so much fear about, my gosh, what if the words that I say, what if the way I express myself and the way I feel about divorce is harmful in any way to these kids? I just love that your approach is so thoughtful and that not only are you navigating this

space in real time, you know, as I did for, mean, co-parenting never ends, right? And everybody's other side of the parent equation, if there is a co-parent present is vastly different and comes with all the complexities of any relationship plus the stress of divorce plus your little hearts sharing time between places and spaces and other people, right? I can't think of a more vulnerable, raw, sensitive, scary thing.

for people to navigate than sharing their children outside of their own environment. And I think that one of the things I respect about you so much and your approach is that you're navigating this. Like I am, my daughter's, you know, she's an adult now and onto kind of her next phase of life. so co-parenting dynamic changes. I won't say it gets easier, but it changes. And for people like yourself that have younger children with a little bit longer runway and are staring down that option, I...

Lisa Mitchell (10:04.29)
I mean, frankly, that's what I think keeps a lot of women feeling stuck or feeling like they don't have an option to explore what else could my life look like? Can you talk a little bit about how you, guess I won't say have made peace, right? But how you continually find peace in the path that you've chosen and how you were able to kind of make that initial decision of like, you know what, there's gonna be some challenges and it's gonna put stress on some really important relationships, but this is something that

the benefit of doing this is outweighing the cost of what it's gonna take to do this. Because I feel like a lot of people get really stuck in that math. Absolutely. And to your point about this conversation becoming more complicated when it comes to having kids in the picture, I think that's what's so beautiful about you creating this space and even any work where you are

any of the divorce helpers creating space for people to talk about it because the alternative as far as not talking about this kind of stuff does not necessarily also does not help the situation and help you show up as the best version of yourself with your kids. So to answer your question as far as finding peace at the end of my personal story,

I think it's important to recognize that everybody has a very specific and a very different story when it comes to their divorce. And I think that that is what I love about what I do so much is by taking in everyone's story, it allows for perspective. My story might not be the same as yours and for the many people listening on this podcast, but I can see how

if I would have approached this differently that I may have experienced a different result and not necessarily good or bad, but just different. And I think that the perspective helps a lot. me, divorce, and this is something I think that we can all share, divorce is really stressful. my God, yes.

Lisa Mitchell (12:26.094)
Stressful is like the nicest word I can think to describe it. Well, I looked it up. It's not like I needed to validate or justify it, but there's like this level of, there's this index. It's a stress life index. And it ranks the top most stressful life experiences from, I don't know, like one to 50. And one and two were neck and neck, the loss of a spouse.

and the divorce of a spouse. was one and two neck and neck. And not that I needed to utilize that index to justify it. I have anecdotal experience to confirm that it is indeed stressful. But I think what's interesting is that everyone handles stress so differently, right? You've got your fight, flight, and freeze. And so I talk to many people who are like, my gosh, this is so stressful. Get me the hell out of here. I'm going to run. I'm going to power through this.

I'm gonna take control, all of this stuff. For me, I actually froze. What does that look like? If fight is like, me through it, I'm powering through, full steam ahead, in and out as quick as possible. What did freeze look like for you? For me, freeze looked like that denial phase of guilt lasted longer than most. Staking my head in the sand. I joke, I tell people if I were in Hunger Game,

I'm like PETA all the way, like there any in the mud and only my eyeballs, maybe this will all go away. But paying forward the gifts that were given to me during that place, I had guardian angels from all over the universe coming. Even my mom said, it's like Rafiki and Lion King. She's like, I want to take a stick and knock you over the head, like, wake up, wake up. You got to deal with this. And so.

Luckily, I have lots of people tapping me on the shoulder and I recognized how lucky I was to have those people coming at me with real truth and real reality and sticking it in front of my face in order to motivate me to, again, put my next foot in front of the other and take the steps that I needed to do in order to have some autonomy of

Lisa Mitchell (14:49.716)
my own story and have autonomy with my new chapter of life. think you've said at some point, no matter what story we tell ourselves, we get to choose. And I think that part of my freeze, I'm a first born child of five kids growing up. so perfectionism runs deep. So oftentimes I would freeze because I was worried like, what if this step isn't perfect? And then practicing, getting in that practice of listening,

being aware of what was happening around me, and then also getting really quiet with my own voice. And a lot of people, and one of the classic stories I see in my divorce clients, if you're in a marriage for years and years and years that you start to ignore and abandon yourself in that marriage, it takes some practice to get quiet.

and find that person inside. And so for me, it was just that continual practice of reaching out for help, for getting quiet, listening to the voice inside of me, and then also just reminding myself to be aware of what messages that I was getting from around me. Sometimes you have to start with that and then get really quiet to listen to your own voice.

Thank you for sharing that first of all, because I think that's so helpful because the topic of divorce is very noisy right now, especially on social media, right? We're recording this the end of November. This is, you know, dubbed divorce season. Like more divorces are filed in January after people are forced to spend the holidays and they reach some breaking points. And what's so interesting here is that the narrative has really shifted to like women are

doing this, right? Like they're the ones taking action, they're choosing this. And in many cases that is true. Like women are being more empowered, they are being less willing to be unsatisfied or uncared for or unloved or to stay in a marriage out of obligation. But I think there's also still a lot of women that are like not choosing divorce and are still in the process of divorce, right? And I think there is a difference in dynamic from the starting line of if you're choosing it,

Lisa Mitchell (17:02.09)
that is a more empowered, it doesn't mean it's easier, but from the beginning, if you are choosing it, that is a, just a dynamic that is more empowered than if something is being chosen for you. And I think it would be really remiss and unfortunate for us not to just acknowledge that if you are finding yourself in a divorce, if you're listening to this right now and you're like, I don't want this at all.

I did not choose this. There was a catastrophic betrayal of some sort or just the classic went out for milk and didn't come home and filed for divorce. Like there are a lot of women who are not the ones choosing divorce but are still in divorce. And I think that dynamic can feel very different and can feel instead of starting from a place of empowerment where you're making the decision.

you're having your power maybe taken from you or it can feel like you're coming from a place of disempowerment. What, Leah, what might you say in that instance? Like how are you able to come from a place of denial and working from a place of freeze of like, this isn't happening or I don't want this or I didn't choose this. How are you able to take some of your power back in that situation and how do you help clients do that? I want to point out there's that

third situation. And I think it's worth speaking to because there's a lot tied up around who filed because then there's another situation where somebody wants the divorce says they want the divorce and then they start to lead a divorce lifestyle. yeah. yeah, they do. But won't be the one to own it.

or do any of the divorce work? So that's the other sticking point. And I'm sure lots of people are nodding their heads like, I didn't choose this. And yet somehow I'm stuck doing all the things. I'm filing, I'm getting the attorney, even though this is not what I want. I'm driving the car even though I didn't want to go on the trip. Correct. And then there's an entire layer to that. That's a whole episode in and of itself right there.

Lisa Mitchell (19:18.21)
And then all of sudden the conversation goes, well, you filed, so you must have wanted this. Then you get to be the villain, right? Like there's a whole strategy around, we need to do an episode around that because the strategic villain is a very real storyline that I know a lot of people listening to this are in or have lived. Well, I know on the flip side of the strategic villain is the wrestling for the label of the victim.

perpetual victim. Yes. See, that's the beauty of assigning the villain role to someone is that then someone also gets to, you know, by the beauty of Cartman's triangle, somebody gets to be the victim. And every once in a while, somebody gets to cameo as a rescuer, right? The universal dynamic that never fails to prove true. Absolutely. And so I think the way through, whether you're on one side or the other,

if you are the driver or if you are the person that divorced felt like it happened to, the way through is accountability in both situations. What can I be accountable for? And how can I account for myself? And do I want to own the label of victim in my new chapter? And it takes a while to get there.

The clients that I coach where it feels as if divorce has happened to them, the work gets centered around how has this happened for you and in what way does that story impede you from moving forward into your best life? yeah. I think that is such a challenging reframe, but it's so important on the power, right? Is to take it from this happened to me to it happened for me.

But man, that's hard when you're in it. When you have somebody who's so far in it, like let's just get really real for a second here. When you have somebody who is in a situation that feels like they are like damn near a hostage, right? Like this is not the choice I want. I don't wanna go set up another household. I don't wanna be a single parent. I don't want to change my social circle or my status or I don't wanna take my ring off. What are some questions or what are some ways when you're coaching people, that help?

Lisa Mitchell (21:36.246)
bring that matter of choice and that reframing of it happened to me to for me? What are some ways that people can start challenging themselves to reframe that? Well, first of all, I think that it's really important that in those situations, there are several marital situations that or that they are working out of that they are getting messaging that is saying the opposite.

So most of us call that gaslighting. I'm not divorcing you. am or this and this and this didn't happen or this didn't exist. I am leaving you because of X, Y, and Z. And so I think it's really important to sit and listen to people and allow just enough space to say, I hear you and I get where that story is coming from.

but then not to spend so much time in it that it's leading you stuck. So how can both things be true? And in those very beginning stages, you kind of vacillate, right? Between past and as you're trying to work on a new mindset that can enable you the path forward, I think it's being able to hold somebody in love and respect that story and just say, listen,

I get that your story has gotten shoved under the rug a million times and let's take a minute to honor it. Which is such a grace-filled position to stand in when somebody has like been gaslighting the shit out of you forever, right? To then be able to take a step back and be like, let me give you space to be heard and to narrate the story that you are experiencing or that you believe to be true in the sake of like understanding and

and ownership of that story, but man, that's tough. Like that is an act of sacrifice and courage, I think, for somebody who knows that that's not real or has such a vastly different lived experience from the story that's being told to be able to like receive that story or that perception with grace in space. Cause every ounce of me in that situation wants to scream like, what are you even talking about?

Lisa Mitchell (24:01.804)
You're right. And I have to rewind myself to your point and to speak in solidarity to that feeling right there. I had my people going through my divorce. I was lucky enough to have the support of my parents. And I also have a best friend who, and I remember my parents giving me the advice, the goal in all of this is indifference. And all I could hear was, let's speed this

grief stuff along. This is messy. These feelings are... you neutralize your emotions, please? And so all I heard was like, grief was a race and I needed to work harder to get to that finish line of difference. I know there are so many people listening to this right now that are like, my God, me too. Same thing. And God love them. I mean, they mean so well. I mean...

not to totally stereotype that boomer generation. Well, the way I put it is like, can you hurry up so I feel comfortable again? I'm uncomfortable with your feelings or experience. Can you just put that aside so I feel okay again? They didn't necessarily grow up with the tools of sitting next to someone with uncomfortable feelings. And I think that that right there is the key is finding your people that can be comfortable with your mess.

was sitting in mere messy fields with you because they always bath. They do. And it's so hard when you're in it. I think of it as like inflammation. Like you're finally starting to feel good again and it's a flare, right? It's an inflammation flare. Somebody says something or you get a text or an email comes or a schedule gets disregarded or something you agreed to comes back up to debate again, right? It's just like this constant state.

of inflammation, your emotions, of your body, of just your mental health. Like everything is constantly getting inflamed. And I think to ignore it doesn't make it go away, but to receive it as your identity doesn't let it pass through. And so I love how you, I want to talk just a minute because I think for the people listening to this, it's really important for them to think in their own story and however they're looking for support. Like you approach your

Lisa Mitchell (26:18.286)
coaching kind of segments a lot like I do things here at Divorce Curious, right? Like you have divorce contemplation, which for me is just before. You have the divorce transition, which for me is during, and you have the post divorce life design, which by the way, I love that because that's exactly what you're doing, but it sounds way more fun the way you say it as post life design than I say after. But that was part of the reason I love how you focus on

Let's identify and solve the most urgent things at each phase that you're moving through. Because I think when you're staring down that place of maybe, like I may make this decision, and you look at the end road, it literally seems like an endless stretch of desert highway. It will never end and it's gonna suck the whole time.

And I think by segmenting it like you do, and you have very specific actions and areas of focus and things that are just so, you know what, friend, let's just look at right now. Let's get you the best outcomes and approach and mindset and wellbeing for right now. And then we'll have those same systems and focus and specific resolution on the things that come in the next phase when we get to the next phase. I think to me and for most humans,

We feel like we can do a few things at a time. That makes sense. It doesn't feel overwhelmed. Like for me, if I feel overwhelmed by a big, even making a recipe, if it's got too many ingredients and too many steps, I won't make it. I'm gonna go back to the thing I've made a hundred times because my brain literally, I look at the recipe and it looks delicious and I want that end dish. But I'm like, hell no. I can't do it. I don't have the emotional bandwidth to work my way through a recipe right now.

So I think, that's a very simplistic way to kind of make a comparison to coaching, but I think you've built such a beautiful, manageable system that it really meets people where they are, first of all, which is hard to do, because you can come in at any one of these phases working with you. And if you're already through step one, you don't want to go back there again and rehash it and second guess everything. You want to just pick up where you are. I'd love to know when somebody comes to you, how do you first kind of figure out where you're starting from?

Lisa Mitchell (28:34.302)
And what does that path of starting to work together look like with you? I'm listening to all of your analogies and I'm smiling because in my past life, physical therapy, so you talk about inflammation and I'm like, yeah, that metaphor I can get right in there. But then also with compliance, I mean, when you're going through a divorce and it's like the one of the most stressful things somebody can go through in their life, just inherently the most competent

people, whether you are one or you know one, that level of executive functioning for you to be able to make decisions, it's kind of out the window in the most competent people. mean, when you're going through that much stress, it is hard to make a decision. And I think back when I was in PT school, the research said, you know, if we gave somebody a home exercise program or with coaching, say, okay, so the three things are going to work on each week. But I think that there was a study saying that with compliance.

Don't give someone more than three exercises. So that's part of the way that my coaching programs work. just break it down. We say, okay, this is the most important thing this week. These are the three things that you are gonna work on. And sometimes it gets stripped down and it gets real basic. Sometimes people come to me and say, I can't focus. And it's like, okay, what anchors you? Let's think of just a few things to anchor you and how can we implement that every single day?

And if you're not anchored, then your kids sure as hell are not gonna feel anchored, because they pick up on everything. So a lot of times, just putting your oxygen mask on first and signing up for coaching is a lot of times the first step. Like, okay, I am going to commit and dedicate to saying yes to help so that I can show up the best version of myself every day. I love that. I think to me, like even just hearing you say that in such a simple way,

made me feel more calm because I am one of those people who will run or fight or ignore if something feels too overwhelming for me. And I just, did a trauma-informed interview training recently and just really dove deep into how people's brains literally function or don't under that freeze, fight, flight, traumatic event processing. And for some people, even the most well-intentioned, I'm going to get my to-do list and I'm going to do all the things to have a good divorce right now.

Lisa Mitchell (30:58.702)
Literally your brain is like, nice try. There's no way. I don't care how many sticky notes you have or how many lists you have. We need to do things slowly. And I think what I love about your system is that you really help people understand that progress and healing compounds over time. It is not a zero to a hundred, do these 10 things, you're better, or do these 10 things and your divorce feels better. It's like, let's find the things that benefit you immediately and let's continue to compound and grow.

on your healing through your process, which I think is just such a gift and such a beautiful approach. And what I really respect about the way that you coach is like, it's not the demand and it's not the speed. It is that continual compounding wellness that I think feels so out of reach or it just seems impossible when you're in it you feel like you're getting punched in the face every day to think that like someday I'm not gonna feel like I'm getting punched in the face today. That alone gives me hope.

to be able to share that with people listening today and let them know about you and how you coach and your approach and the resources that you have. And I know you have a ton of stuff. Honestly, I could talk to you forever. Like there may be a part two because like there's so much just like with divorce, there's so much to talk about and how to get through divorce. But for the sake of everybody's, know, drive time and commute, I want you to tell people, Leah, where you're so generous with your information and your resources and your time, how can people best connect with you?

to start working on that compounding healing and well-being through their divorce process. I would absolutely just direct anybody to my website because that is where you can find some resources. I've got a blog up on there that definitely touches a few typical divorce conversation topics. You can sign up for my newsletter and I can also drop information in your.

inbox and it's not cluttery. It's just once a month, just some different tips. You can figure out where to follow me on my socials. And then most importantly, you can sign up for a free consultation. And I offer those to anyone who is coaching curious to see how working with a coach might be able to be just an additional form of support to hold your hand and create a package that might be able to work for you for

Lisa Mitchell (33:20.488)
whatever part of the divorce journey you are in, whether you're contemplating you don't know where to start, whether you're in the middle of your divorce and you're trying to figure out how to make all of those decisions that you want to put into writing as you're coming up with an agreement on how the rest of your life is going to look. Or if your divorce is finalized and you're like, okay, well, here I am. This is where all of the pieces fell.

And I'd like for somebody to just kind of be with me as I intentionally and mindfully put those pieces back together and create a mosaic of something that I can deem as beautiful and hopeful. I'll put some links in the show notes for those of you that are listening or watching this. Her website is leahjeaquintocoaching.com. And again, I'll spell it out for you. I'll put a link in it in the show notes so we don't have to figure out.

how to get all the letters in the right place there. But I would encourage anyone listening to this, anybody watching this to go connect with Leah and sign up for the newsletter. If you're in it, having a little bit of encouragement, having a little bit of hope, just show up in your inbox, I think is really such a game changer towards keeping your mind pointed towards positive outcomes. And I think Leah, I can't imagine a better voice to have show up in your inbox when you need it than Leah's. So Leah, thank you so much.

for being here with us on Divorce Curious and for anybody listening, whatever phase you're in, if you're contemplating, if you're in process, if you're putting together your life plan, your post-divorce life design, as Leah calls it, this is for you. And if you are having these conversations with coworkers or family or friends and you want to just say, hey, I don't know exactly how to help you, but I think maybe this podcast and these coaching resources could really do you good, share this, share the links.

The podcast is available anywhere that anybody wants to listen to their podcast, whether it's Apple or Spotify or YouTube carries it too. So share the link. The other thing you can do to get it in front of more people, maybe that you don't have a direct relationship that would benefit from this is to leave a rating and leave a comment. And again, you can do that wherever you're listening to this, but I just really want to encourage you stay connected. If you're going through this, it's very easy to just feel like you're on an island.

Lisa Mitchell (35:47.318)
And if you don't have friends and family that are supportive of you or you don't have somebody that you feel like can really relate, please find the free resources, do the call with Leah, get connected to her newsletter, follow along here at Divorce Curious, and we will do our best to be on the ride with you and help put you back in the driver's seat of your experience. So with that, I'm going to say stay curious friends and until next time, be well.