"How Is This My Life?" with Aimee Kandrac

Divorce can take the life you know and love, flip it upside down unexpectedly, and leave you wondering "how is this my life?"

Imagine having a major health crisis and then having your spouse tell you they are filing for divorce all in the matter of a week. That's exactly the situation that my guest Aimee Kandrac found herself in and to say that her world was totally rocked is an understatement.

In this conversation, Lisa Mitchell and Aimee Kandrac explore the complexities of navigating these devastating life changes, and how it feels when everything bad seems to be happening all at the same time. 

Aimee shares her painful personal journey through a surprise divorce, a major health challenge, and the seemingly impossible task of keeping her life on track throughout it all. She bravely walks us through her hardest moments, such as uncovering a deep betrayal, navigating hard conversations with her children, and the realization that she's now living in a version of life she never wanted to be in or expected.

This conversation emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, having the right support systems, and the gift of self-discovery in overcoming life's challenges. Aimee went from wondering "how is this my life?" in her darkest moments to being grateful that this new version of her life, although it looks completely different, is one she can continue to grow and thrive in.

They share personal experiences and insights on trust, preparation, and the journey towards healing and personal growth after a significant life transition. The discussion highlights the necessity of being informed and prepared, as well as the value of community and support during challenging times.

Takeaways

• Aimee emphasizes the shame and grief associated with divorce.
• The importance of having a support system during tough times.
• Life can change drastically in a short period.
• Vulnerability can lead to strength and resilience.
• Financial literacy is crucial when facing divorce.
• Self-discovery is a valuable process regardless of relationship status.
• It's common to feel lost and overwhelmed during life changes.
• Having professional support can provide a different perspective.
• Preparation can alleviate some of the stress of divorce.
• Emotional healing takes time, but it can lead to a beautiful transformation. Having an objective third party can provide clarity.
• Preparation is key, even if divorce isn't imminent.
• Fear often drives decision-making more than data.
• Trust can be broken in unexpected ways during divorce.
• Financial awareness is crucial during a divorce process.
• Emotional responses can cloud judgment and decision-making.
• It's important to document possessions and assets.
• Healing is a gradual process that involves daily improvements.
• Celebrating new beginnings can be empowering.
• Support from friends and community is invaluable during tough times.

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Transcript

LISA MITCHELL (00:01.944)
Hey, welcome. Welcome, welcome, divorce curious fam. I am super excited today because it's not just me that you get to listen to. It is actually me plus an amazing, badass business builder, entrepreneur, life experience, haver. My friend Amy, Amy welcome. Thank you so much for coming on, sharing your story and man man, a story that it is, huh?

Aimee Kandrac (00:30.211)
Lisa, it's such a pleasure to get to chat with you. Thank you for having me.

LISA MITCHELL (00:34.889)
We always have the best talks.

Aimee Kandrac (00:37.344)
Well, I hope so.

LISA MITCHELL (00:39.958)
Yeah. So Amy, I would love for you to just kind of introduce yourself to the Divorce Curious crew. We're going to get into the nitty gritty of your story here in a minute, but I want them to know a little bit about you first. So what is it that you like to spend your time doing? What is it that brings you joy, makes you happy, gets you out of bed on the other side of the things that have happened in your story?

Aimee Kandrac (01:01.846)
Mmm.

Aimee Kandrac (01:06.186)
thanks. Well, Lisa, I am thrilled to be on a podcast. I have my own podcast also. So I that's one of the things that gets me out of bed is doing podcasts and having the opportunity to talk to people. I own a company called What Friends Do and we help people through major life disturbances.

And I started that a long time ago. Before, I mean, I'd had some life things happen before, like I lost my dad, we lost really good friends of the family. That's one of the reasons that I started my company. But, you know, when you start your business, sometimes you don't always know that you're going to need it. And I think over the past year, it's been a really

Not so subtle reminder as we get into everything that's going on not so subtle reminder that life happens life happens when you're not expecting it and that's one of the things again that I kind of focus on in my company and what we do with other people so I also I have two amazing kids and they make me really really happy and then I

great friends, and those are the other reasons that I keep going with everything that I'm doing.

LISA MITCHELL (02:40.396)
Yeah, well, I know you have a very full and busy life and I've benefited from your brilliance and experience when it comes to building technology products, which is another big part of both of our lives is kind of figuring out how do you build a technology company? How do you raise money as a female founder? That's a whole nother podcast, but I know we've both been in the trenches there. And then I think,

Aimee Kandrac (02:57.12)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (03:10.972)
when we were talking about what this episode was gonna kinda look and feel like, just the fact that there are so many people that you know, right? That you know, you know parts of their story, you make a lot of assumptions about people, and the things that are going on in the background are sometimes just completely unknown. Unknown, unsuspected,

Aimee Kandrac (03:30.752)
Hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (03:39.958)
Because so many people, and I think women in particular that are business owners and moms, you have to keep the plates spinning even when you've just been hit by a truck. You still don't get...

Aimee Kandrac (03:51.328)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (03:57.142)
you don't get to drop the plates. And I think that's one of the things, and you know, when we were talking and preparing to bring this story to the Divorce Curious audience, that really stuck with me is like the amount of plate spinning that I saw you doing, and kind of the peripheral part, and had no idea that any of these other circumstances were going on with you, which makes me feel like, like a really shitty friend for not.

Aimee Kandrac (04:19.017)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (04:27.008)
being more clued into the experience that you were having and being, you know, frankly, self-focused, which, you know, because there's a lot of plates, everybody's spinning a lot of plates, but I think it's a good challenge for me to be like, look up and check in and, you know, see what's going on.

Aimee Kandrac (04:41.302)
Well, I think one of the biggest things that I learned and I'm clearly still emotional around was like...

how much shame I had at first around my divorce and failure I felt. And I kind of hid for a little while, right? But it wasn't just the shame and the failure. was the grief. It was the overwhelm. It was the...

LISA MITCHELL (05:04.782)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (05:16.222)
reshaping myself and how do I position myself? I didn't even want to go to my regular grocery store because I didn't want to have to interact with people and for the fear of breaking down. And so I hear you when you say, gosh, I should have looked up and I didn't even know you were going through this. I didn't want anyone to know I was going through this.

LISA MITCHELL (05:18.778)
Mmm.

LISA MITCHELL (05:31.31)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (05:42.644)
Right? And I've seen this with a lot of friends who have gone through divorce. And sometimes you just kind of hole away, right? And I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to handle it. I didn't know what I needed to handle. And I just went kind of in hibernation for a little bit.

LISA MITCHELL (05:52.974)
Yeah. Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (06:07.746)
Yeah, I relate to that. I haven't, as of yet, shared a whole lot of the logistics around my story. But I'm legit the person who packed a U-Haul and moved away and didn't tell anybody.

Aimee Kandrac (06:24.544)
I mean, I feel, yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (06:25.498)
Like that was that was me for very similar reasons. It's like, what do I even do? And I'm so ashamed and I'm a type A overachiever. I don't fail at things and then I fail at the most important thing. Right. Like it's just it's just so much so I I 100 % understand why it's easier to just kind of like

Aimee Kandrac (06:37.685)
Right.

LISA MITCHELL (06:47.914)
disappear or sink into the bushes or the wallpaper or just hope people don't notice or don't ask or just try to keep up enough appearances that like you can get by without tipping anybody off that you're in the middle of this like ginormous life crisis. And I think, one of the things I would love for you to share a little bit, Amy is like,

Aimee Kandrac (06:54.166)
Great.

LISA MITCHELL (07:14.476)
you kinda had, like, I always call it like I imploded my life, like I blew everything up all at the same time. And I feel like you kinda had, like, in a very short period of time, some...

Aimee Kandrac (07:21.526)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (07:28.424)
huh.

LISA MITCHELL (07:30.66)
things acted upon you, most things acted upon you. Some things just timing wise of the normal cycle of your life and family, but like, you just, to whatever degree you want to like bullet point out kind of the pile of suck that you found yourself wading through all at the same time.

Aimee Kandrac (07:41.152)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (07:51.414)
Yeah, and I'm prepared to share all of this. I distill sometimes as I am now, you know, more than a year out, even though I look back at it. So, and I get a little emotional. So, so.

LISA MITCHELL (08:07.446)
It's, listen, you bring, we love you for that. Like it is, it's not like people that can, and I use the term bullet point, right? But the people, like if, it is an emotional thing and it's hard to talk about. And I think the more we kind of sanitize it or try to make it pretty or try to just talk in.

Aimee Kandrac (08:14.953)
I-I-

Aimee Kandrac (08:18.751)
No. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (08:23.209)
It is.

Aimee Kandrac (08:32.32)
Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (08:33.216)
in sentences, like it just doesn't honor, it doesn't honor the level of feeling that comes with all of this. whatever, however you need to show up, just girl show up, you're welcome here.

Aimee Kandrac (08:41.844)
Right. Well, thank you. Well, I want to start by saying sometimes I feel like it's like, mic drop, mic drop, mic drop. But but I preface it by saying like, I'm so happy now. So as I share all of this, I'm like, I'm on the other side. So the quick bullet point stories were I found

myself moving my youngest in to college and becoming an empty nester with my husband. And a couple of days later, I needed to go visit my daughter. She was out in Denver and I was in Indianapolis and I was driving back and forth. On my way home from that drive, I had some pretty significant pain, ended up

calling the doctor when I got back to Indianapolis. And pretty quickly over the course of like less than 48 hours, found out that I had a tumor and

As I was coming home from getting some testing done, I walked in the house and my husband said, I think we need to talk about us. I want a divorce.

LISA MITCHELL (10:12.162)
And this, this was testing to basically find out if this was a can't like, if you were facing a cancer diagnosis or not. Right. And, and he was aware that you were going for this test. Okay. Okay.

Aimee Kandrac (10:17.046)
Correct. Correct. He was aware of all of this. And to be clear, things weren't great with us. I didn't know that we were at this point of like, let's get a divorce right now. So I pretty sure my first response to him was like, I'm having surgery in like five days. Can we wait to...

talk about this until like just we we had been married for 23 years. I was like, can we just wait a couple more days on this please? It ended up that everything was benign. That was amazing. He did sign the divorce papers that day and then moved out a couple of days later. We were in a really big, beautiful dream home.

LISA MITCHELL (10:48.339)
Seems like a reasonable request to me, honestly, yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (10:55.876)
Just a few, just maybe just a couple days, yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (11:16.864)
that I didn't need when it was just me and quite frankly, I didn't need it and I couldn't afford it.

And he pretty much said, you know, like, here's enough money for the next two ish months, get the house sold. I'm in our other house and he helped with the packing some. but you know, there's just a different level of things. So I was, I had to wait a couple of weeks to put the house up for sale. Cause I was still recovering from, from a major surgery, which again, benign, everything is great. No big deal, but still like.

LISA MITCHELL (11:48.024)
recovering from major surgery. Yeah. Right, right. But still, that's trauma on your body and the emotional stress of it could be or it might be. mean, yeah, that's, yes.

Aimee Kandrac (11:58.622)
Right. Yeah. So, we had all those things. I ended up getting my house up for sale.

and then sold the house and got everything packed up, moved out, and the divorce was final, essentially. And then that was over the course of about three and a half months.

LISA MITCHELL (12:30.232)
Wow, so like, just, that, seems like an impossible amount of things to deal with in such a short period of time. Does that, does that feel like a, like a before and after like line of demarcation, you know, a record scratch kind of thing as our friend Kara Kavinsky says, right? Like it was that, do you feel like that's one of those like, that will forever be a before and after or a,

Aimee Kandrac (12:39.574)
Hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (12:51.339)
Right?

LISA MITCHELL (13:00.068)
point of demarcation in your story? Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (13:03.638)
100%. 100%. Probably the saddest I've ever been in my life. The most shattered I had ever been in my life. I used some imagery as I was going through it. And it's of this beautiful Japanese bowl that is a lot of pieces.

that all get put back together and soldered together with gold. And I just had to use that imagery almost every day to be like, I know I'm totally shattered, but I'm going to come back beautiful. And all of those breaks are what makes it beautiful. But shit, it was so hard. I mean, I had, I'm really, really lucky because I have some

pretty amazing people in my life. And I was really insular and I didn't let many people in. But those people who were in were all in and helped me so much. I mean, I had girlfriends who I would literally call almost in the middle of the night and I was like laying on the floor crying because I didn't know how I was gonna do it.

And I had other girlfriends who, like one girlfriend who came over and she's like, we're just getting out of bed and going downstairs for coffee today. That's all we're doing right now. You can do it. Because, because how do you do it? Like it's, it's,

LISA MITCHELL (14:44.239)
Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (14:48.1)
Yeah, so how, right.

Aimee Kandrac (14:54.204)
Anyway, it's hard, but do I look at that as like a life altering time? Yes, because also now, I didn't know what a gift it was.

LISA MITCHELL (15:07.294)
Hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, I, there's, there are some, very stark parallels in our stories. mean, circumstances are different, logistics are different, but I think that, that feeling of like, how is this my life? Like, how is this my life? Like, I remember I had, you know, when I had moved, I ended up at a short time back.

Aimee Kandrac (15:24.842)
Right?

LISA MITCHELL (15:35.584)
with my parents, with my, you know, my daughter was young. She was a toddler, like preschool age. And I'm in my, you know, basically the guest room at my parents' house reading like the Twilight books and on a Saturday night and my daughter's in the room next to me. And I just remember having this moment of like,

Aimee Kandrac (15:42.134)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (15:58.546)
I'm not a big feels person. try to stay out of my feels or I used to, I used to really try to stay out of my feels because like who's got time for that. But I remember just like, like breaking, like laying in bed with my book at like midnight thinking, looking around my, my surroundings and thinking how in the hell is this even my life? Like.

Aimee Kandrac (16:12.598)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (16:24.758)
Right?

LISA MITCHELL (16:26.36)
And like, no, I don't think like there's so many people that are well-intentioned and try to support you and try to show up for you. But I feel like unless you have had that moment where you're like, a week ago, I was living in a big, beautiful house and my family was intact and everybody thought everything was fine. And now, my God, like what is life? Like, how is this my life?

Aimee Kandrac (16:36.928)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (16:48.022)
Amen.

I had four months when, like I joke, but I was living out of my car for four months. I wasn't really because I had places to stay. not, but I was homeless, right? Like I didn't have a house. I did not have a home for me. And so, I had...

LISA MITCHELL (17:00.502)
Right.

LISA MITCHELL (17:11.584)
Right, your home wasn't, your home wasn't your home anymore. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (17:19.466)
most of my life in storage. I had some things that I thought that I might need to have access to stored at my sister's house. Anything that I was gonna need on a daily basis, I just had in my car and literally put probably 4,000 miles on my car over the course of four months. yeah, how was this my life?

LISA MITCHELL (17:42.852)
How is this my life? Yeah, I feel like that was like if there was gonna be a t-shirt, right? Like a slogan t-shirt for that period of time. It would just be like, how is this my life? Like this doesn't even make sense.

Aimee Kandrac (18:00.072)
It doesn't make sense, but I also, I couldn't be having the life that I'm having now.

LISA MITCHELL (18:09.258)
See, that's the part, and I know we're gonna skip a million things in the meantime, but that's the part I think is as equally as baffling as how is this my life when you are in it? And then on the other side of it, you get to say with gratitude and with joy and with happiness,

Aimee Kandrac (18:26.336)
Right.

LISA MITCHELL (18:37.366)
and optimism, like, how is this my life? Right? Like it's the same words, but a totally different energy and sentiment and meaning. I love like, Amy, I am so happy. And I feel your sincerity when you say like this, I couldn't have this life now if I didn't go through that pain then. And what is like, how, how do you feel about life now on the other side?

Aimee Kandrac (18:43.332)
Like.

Aimee Kandrac (18:55.52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (19:06.971)
so the only regrets that I have are...

that I should have been the one to file for divorce instead of my ex-husband. And I say that only a little bit jokingly. And then my kids have said this one to me and I should have done it.

LISA MITCHELL (19:33.145)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (19:34.111)
like probably 10 years earlier. But I didn't. really, you know, looking back really should have. Really, really should have.

LISA MITCHELL (19:39.971)
Right?

LISA MITCHELL (19:51.086)
That is the most common regret that divorced women have, by the way. Like out of all the things they could regret and all the pain that comes with it, the number one regret historically, and it's not even close, is that they should have done it sooner.

Aimee Kandrac (19:55.542)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (20:04.756)
Yeah, totally should have done it sooner. And if I, I don't ever want to like wish divorce on anyone. And I don't want to like advise people that this is what they should do if they don't want to do it. But if they're considering it, like if I had known there are things I would have done to prepare.

LISA MITCHELL (20:15.267)
No, it's terrible.

LISA MITCHELL (20:30.734)
Yes.

Aimee Kandrac (20:31.56)
especially because my ex-husband and I had really significant income discrepancies. And I could have just been a little more prepared.

LISA MITCHELL (20:40.942)
Yeah. Well, and I think that's, that's like such a great point because there are, you know, the really kind of the whole, the whole catalyst behind divorce curious and the community and the resources and the podcast is.

That exact thing, right? Like I am very clear that I am not an advocate of divorce. Like it is terrible. It is devastating. It is, will wreck you financially and emotionally and will give you more guilt as a mom than you've ever felt in your entire life. Right? Like I would never, I would never.

Aimee Kandrac (21:03.412)
No?

Aimee Kandrac (21:11.179)
Yep.

LISA MITCHELL (21:19.494)
recommend or try to persuade somebody into, into going the route of divorce because I've done it and it's terrible. But what I, what I am wanting to do and what I think your story will help people think through is if you are, if you are thinking about it, that means that there is something that is not fulfilling you and, or you have a level of unhappiness, right? So you deserve to explore every option.

Aimee Kandrac (21:28.886)
100%.

Aimee Kandrac (21:38.708)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (21:46.336)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (21:46.966)
you need to make the next best decision for yourself. And if you at least mentally walk through, what would it look like? What should I expect? What tools, what resources, what professionals do I need?

to connect and I mean, was so like my divorce was not a surprise and I was still surprised by just the amount, what I did not know. What I did not know I should even think about or prepare for or plan for or budget for, right? Like it was just like insult to injury. And that's why I'm like so passionate about.

Aimee Kandrac (22:19.061)
Right, I-

LISA MITCHELL (22:28.27)
having people like you tell your story and really give the good, the bad, the ugly, the biggest surprises what you wish you could have prepared for it because it's already terrible, but it doesn't have to be terrible and as hard as it is when you just don't know what you don't know.

Aimee Kandrac (22:31.243)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (22:47.626)
Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. And I am so excited for you that you have this resource available to people. But I also think, you as I've watched other friends go through this, like every situation is just a little different. And, mean, my business is about helping people through major life events and major life disturbances. There are also some pretty standard things that everyone needs to know, right? And then,

LISA MITCHELL (23:15.724)
Yeah, would be your shortlist, Amy, of like maybe the things you were most surprised by or what you wish you would have known more or been more prepared for as someone who may be divorced curious or thinking through or planning for what that might look like if that is the next best step for them?

Aimee Kandrac (23:16.956)
knowing that everything's nuanced, right?

Aimee Kandrac (23:32.342)
Hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (23:40.92)
I know the list is long because you just, it's incredible how much you need to know, but is there one or two things that you think like, man, if I would have just done that differently or had I just known about this, it would have really changed my experience?

Aimee Kandrac (23:43.981)
Because it is, right?

Aimee Kandrac (23:57.578)
Well, I think I'd like to like not really tangently answer this, but I would like to answer it by saying, I think there's a lot of things that you can do that are gonna be good for you, whether or not you decide to get forced or not. Right? So some of those things, like one of them is like being super, super financially literate. Get all of your finances figured out in order.

LISA MITCHELL (24:21.69)
Mm.

Aimee Kandrac (24:26.686)
Make a spreadsheet. makes my skin crawl thinking about it. But like, it's not the fun stuff, but get it all down. Have a list of all of your assets. And by all of your assets, I mean all of your fucking assets. Every single thing. Have it on there. This is not going to hurt you by doing this. This does not mean you are going to get a divorce. It means you're ready either way. Have that list. Know every bank account.

LISA MITCHELL (24:29.282)
Right, not the fun stuff. But it's so important.

LISA MITCHELL (24:40.673)
Amen.

Aimee Kandrac (24:56.51)
Make sure you know every bank account before you get divorced because the minute that those divorce papers get sent in, everything is frozen and you don't have access and you don't have that stuff done. Pay off any bills that you can get paid off, like, and just be super, super financially literate. And then...

LISA MITCHELL (25:05.184)
Yep. Yep.

LISA MITCHELL (25:18.052)
Yes.

Aimee Kandrac (25:23.19)
know who your legal professionals might be. Just talk to your friends about their divorce lawyers. You're probably going to need one. They are not cheap. And make sure you like them. Make sure they respond to you in a way that you want to have them respond to you. But I want to go back to one other piece of advice that

LISA MITCHELL (25:28.174)
Yes.

LISA MITCHELL (25:35.565)
Yep.

Aimee Kandrac (25:54.038)
I think, I don't know that I necessarily did, but I'd like to have other people consider. that is, just work on yourself as much as you can. The happier you can be, the stronger you can be, the stronger you can be during your divorce, after your divorce, even if you don't get divorced. There's no loss to this. There's no downside.

LISA MITCHELL (26:06.168)
Yes. Yes.

LISA MITCHELL (26:18.19)
There's no downside, right? There's no downside.

Aimee Kandrac (26:21.616)
And so if that means finding whatever professionals you need to find to help you think through this, help you walk through as you're going through it, again, no downside, right? Like makes you a better...

LISA MITCHELL (26:36.694)
No, you're going to be happier, healthier, stronger, more mentally sound no matter what. And that benefits you singled or coupled. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (26:43.328)
Yes. Yes. Correct. And sometimes it's helpful to have that professional and not just your girlfriends, right? Because I love my girlfriends. There's no way I would get through life without them. They like, and my mom and my sister, like they're my people.

LISA MITCHELL (26:56.772)
Yes. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (27:12.234)
were human and they all had relationships with me. They all had relationships with my ex-husband. So it's just different than a professional who can maybe give advice differently, right?

LISA MITCHELL (27:25.336)
Yeah, I think having that objective third party, preferably somebody who's experienced in the circumstances that you're currently finding yourself, right? That gives you, because here's what I found, and I don't know if it felt similar to you or not, but I felt like in the situations where there were, we'll say, emotional stakeholders, right? Like friends or family or whatever, like I found myself

Aimee Kandrac (27:28.063)
Yes.

Aimee Kandrac (27:32.404)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (27:37.28)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (27:47.313)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (27:52.314)
kind of catering to their emotional response instead of just being able to like share mine. Cause you don't want to burden people. You don't want to make them worry. don't, you don't want their judgment, right? Like I, everybody's got a big damn opinion. Like, then everybody tells you all the terrible things they thought about the other person for the last 10 years, but they never told you before. And they were like, it just, can get so messy when there's that entrenchment.

Aimee Kandrac (27:56.096)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (28:08.02)
You don't want-

Aimee Kandrac (28:21.718)
What if you decide to change your mind and you've done something, right? Like, I don't know. I, yeah, it's just good to have that objective third party. But what I would say is like, ask your friends for recommendations for these people, right? And just start getting ready with all of that. I think the...

LISA MITCHELL (28:23.674)
Bye!

LISA MITCHELL (28:37.668)
Yes. Yes.

Aimee Kandrac (28:46.838)
Preparation doesn't have to be because you're necessarily going to get divorced, but it doesn't hurt to have all of these things on hand anyway.

LISA MITCHELL (28:56.76)
I agree, I agree because like, know, the phrase I always turn to is, know, fear makes more decision, fear makes more decisions than data ever does, right? But the only way you minimize fear is by getting the data to then give you the confidence and clarity to make the best decision, right? And so if not, if you're making decisions from fear and you will make decisions from fear or frustration or exhaustion or

Aimee Kandrac (29:03.946)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Aimee Kandrac (29:13.27)
Huh.

Aimee Kandrac (29:16.95)
Yep.

Aimee Kandrac (29:23.594)
You will. You will. Yes.

LISA MITCHELL (29:26.582)
whatever, but as much as you can do when you do have the breathing room as part of your, even prior to your decision making, like just exploratory, like it's not a bad thing to have information you then never have to use. But it sure sucks when you need to do something and you don't know or you don't have the information you need, because that's when fear hijacks you.

Aimee Kandrac (29:35.2)
Great.

LISA MITCHELL (29:48.354)
Adrenaline hijacks you, emotional response, you're triggered by your ex, right? Like whatever it is, the wheels fall off so fast if you don't have that preparation.

Aimee Kandrac (29:48.512)
Right.

Aimee Kandrac (29:55.19)
They fall off so fast. And again, like, and just the stress of having to look for everything while you're going through the emotional stuff. if you already have it and you already have those data points, this is one of the things, and so many people told me this and I was in it and I couldn't internalize it, but it's just a business transaction at that point. Right?

LISA MITCHELL (30:20.718)
I know, I love, I have heard it, like that has been something that has been so like just drilled into me. And honestly, one of my regrets is that like, I, I mean, I negotiate for a living, right? I know how to do it, but when it is like, there's a point, I think a lot of people, it gets weaponized against, your exhaustion gets weaponized against you.

Aimee Kandrac (30:46.55)
Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (30:46.934)
and you start sacrificing sound business decisions for peace. You just want peace, you just want a finite, you just want it done. Right, and they, I mean, so many people know that and weaponize it because especially if you're still, you know, on the mom side and you're still taking care of everything and you're dealing with the divorce, right? Like for some partners when they leave, the divorce becomes their only.

Aimee Kandrac (30:52.694)
Uh-huh. You just, and you just want to be done.

LISA MITCHELL (31:14.882)
their only responsibility or the only thing they have to put their time on, right? And the other partner is drowning on all the other things their life takes to run and a divorce. you just, mean, it's energy is a finite resource, man, but I love, yes, it is a business decision. And even when you're exhausted and emotional and you want peace, like,

Aimee Kandrac (31:22.93)
Everything else. Yep.

LISA MITCHELL (31:38.478)
Once a deal is done, it is so hard to go back and modify and right the ship when you do have energy to like finally be mad about things or to finally have the energy to fight or really even just pay attention to some of the things you didn't have the bandwidth for in the moment. And if you.

Aimee Kandrac (31:43.284)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (31:48.415)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (31:55.702)
Right? Which is one of the other reasons why getting a really good lawyer is so critical. Because they know the questions to ask. They know. And you have to follow their advice. And I mean, I had my financial planner give me some other really good advice too. And that was like, look back over the past like six months to see where the money's gone. Because.

LISA MITCHELL (32:02.05)
Yes.

And you have to follow their advice.

LISA MITCHELL (32:18.806)
Yeah. people never get more creative when it comes to hiding assets, when it comes time for disclosure. You have to almost be an investigator or hire a forensic auditor or something to like figure stuff out because it's, it's the person you marry is not the person you divorce. And the way that person manages finances while things are good is not the way is not how they move when things are bad. Right.

Aimee Kandrac (32:45.576)
And they're probably going through emotion too, right? Like, and they might not make the most rational decisions. I'm trying to give my ex the benefit of the doubt from a couple of things that he did that I'm still shocked by. You know, things that I was like, really? I kind of can't believe you did that.

LISA MITCHELL (33:03.054)
Yeah. And you want to think like, no, they wouldn't. Yes, yeah, they might. They might, and they probably did. So you have to assume, like, I'm all about assuming positive intent as a standard operating procedure in my life. I assume positive intent until I have evidence. Like, the forensic interviewer side of me is like, until you have evidence to the contrary, you assume positive intent. That does not apply here.

Aimee Kandrac (33:10.292)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (33:27.742)
I, no.

LISA MITCHELL (33:30.69)
You need to work from suspicion first and then let them prove that it's not. And I hate that, but like, that's so real.

Aimee Kandrac (33:35.574)
It would just really, and it's sad and it's hard, especially when you have built a life with someone. And I had trusted him with so many things, right? And then it didn't occur to me that he took my wedding ring and I couldn't find it for months. And there were like,

LISA MITCHELL (33:53.38)
Sure, yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (33:58.33)
Mmm.

Aimee Kandrac (34:03.976)
I was moving so I had hidden things so that when the house was showing, like it wasn't, and I just assumed like it had fallen into a drawer. I didn't know what was going on. I wasn't wearing it. So it's not like I was looking for it every day kind of thing. Like, I know, but I couldn't find it, couldn't find it, couldn't find it. And then literally like the day we were moving out of our house or the day before we were moving out of our house, I...

LISA MITCHELL (34:17.752)
Right. It wasn't an everyday thing. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (34:30.132)
said something to my daughter, I was like, is there any chance you've seen this? Like, it's just kind of nagging at me that I can't find it. She's like, dad told me he took it like two months ago. And I was mind blown. I was like, what else have I, so then I'm like, so what else have I missed? And what else has he done that I thought that I could trust him with and I couldn't anymore, right? And just weird things.

LISA MITCHELL (34:42.882)
CLEAR!

Right, you're like, what else have I missed that's not here anymore? Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (34:59.466)
that I was like, it didn't occur to me, right? Just didn't occur to me because they're not the person you were married to before, right?

LISA MITCHELL (35:03.438)
Right.

LISA MITCHELL (35:07.114)
they write here, the person you were married to when it was good would never think to mess with your property or take something sentimentally valuable to you or that you may want to give to your daughter, right? Like he who knows but but yeah, the the amount of like, and then it's rationalized somehow as if it made sense that that happened, right? And then you feel like you're going crazy, which is again, things that would never happen to the person you married, but happens with the person that you divorce, right? And I don't I don't

Aimee Kandrac (35:12.106)
Right.

Aimee Kandrac (35:17.898)
Right!

LISA MITCHELL (35:37.924)
I don't share that or affirm that experience that you had to fear monger or bash anybody. It's just strictly a data point. Like I am so big on data points. It's just something you hope isn't part of your story, but it might be. So take an inventory, like videotape your possession, like whatever you have to do, like to keep yourself from feeling like you're going crazy later, do it now and safeguard it.

Aimee Kandrac (35:43.988)
Nope. Nope. I-

Aimee Kandrac (35:52.79)
Great.

Aimee Kandrac (36:04.938)
Yeah, do it now because okay, so you've taken a video of it or you've done whatever and you don't need it, then delete it. Great. You do not have to review that. And I don't mean that as like a, I didn't mean to share that in any way other than things that I just never expected, right? And did I do things like that? Maybe. I mean, I was pretty perfect, but for some reason we got divorced and it's rarely one-sided.

LISA MITCHELL (36:12.378)
Sure, no big deal.

LISA MITCHELL (36:24.016)
And that's that's the name of the game sure

I mean, right. I know, right? It's like, I own part of this problem, but that doesn't feel as good to say. it doesn't feel as good to say. But I think your point, like thank you. Thank you, first of all, for sharing that, right? Like it does not feel great to have to like share a story that your ex like jacked your wedding ring out from under your nose, right? Like that, but it.

Aimee Kandrac (36:37.558)
I mean, maybe it doesn't feel as good to say, but again.

Aimee Kandrac (36:57.11)
Bye!

LISA MITCHELL (36:58.68)
That's not unusual. Like it might not be a wedding ring, it might be something else, but the amount of stories that I hear and the things I experience myself, right? It's just people are not their most amazing, logical, kind.

Aimee Kandrac (37:04.458)
It might be some rate.

LISA MITCHELL (37:18.062)
Like people will legit break the law in a divorce like just because they're emotional and not even really thinking about like the repercussions like people I I think there's a little bit of like You kind of lose your shit everybody kind of loses their shit, but you don't know how it's gonna manifest or Yeah, yeah

Aimee Kandrac (37:33.558)
Well you do!

You don't, and every day's a little different, right? Like, especially when you're in it, right? And it's so hard.

LISA MITCHELL (37:46.37)
Yeah, it is hard to be rational. It's hard to be rational when you're emotionally hijacked every day, whether by some external force or just some data point or just your own damn feelings of trying to figure out how the heck this is your life. So I love that.

Aimee Kandrac (38:02.198)
Mm-hmm. And I got pretty lucky in the sense that like sometimes I look at my friends who went through divorce and I still have friends going through divorce and I hate my kids were out of the house.

And that made it so much easier in some regards. But yeah, in other regards, they couldn't see days that I was having a good day, right? Because sometimes you do have good days. And then they also didn't get the chance to see the rebuilding that happens after. And I do want to just share that.

My life is so great now. And I say that like, I feel like I'm whispering. I'm not allowed to say it.

LISA MITCHELL (38:56.243)
Right? It's like you're kind of surprised by that. But no, think that that, like, Amy, when you think about somebody listening to this right now, who is just in the trenches, right? Just in the trenches. And it seems like I

Aimee Kandrac (39:02.134)
Thanks

Aimee Kandrac (39:12.778)
Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (39:16.91)
I remember thinking like my mantra became like it has to end eventually. Like it has to end eventually. The paper has to get signed. Because mine took I think almost two years beginning to end for a myriad of reasons. And it just, it does. And it's not like even a day or a moment that's not even getting the paperwork signed or getting something settled. that's not when.

Like to me, that isn't when it felt like it was done or like I was on the quote unquote other side, right? Like it is a daily, almost like a daily improvement. Like you just feel yourself getting a little stronger, getting a little more emotionally neutral, getting another piece of data or another resource or finding another person to support you and uplift you. And it really is like this,

Aimee Kandrac (39:58.976)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (40:05.482)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (40:10.581)
Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (40:16.228)
at least for me, it was like this accumulation of better things, right? Accumulation of better days, accumulation of more emotional space and more feelings of happiness versus sadness or stress, right? It was this weird, slow, like it seemed like the divorce was like, boom, right? It was like car crash. Like you just have the moment of impact.

Aimee Kandrac (40:20.416)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

LISA MITCHELL (40:42.892)
And then the getting to the other side or the I'm good now side is like, it's a slow incremental. you sometimes you don't even notice it, but when you look back in the distance, it's like, my God, I'm so happy now. Like I'm so good now. you don't, it like almost kind of surprises me sometimes still that like, that I'm good.

Aimee Kandrac (40:53.717)
right?

Aimee Kandrac (40:57.194)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (41:02.206)
Right, it does.

LISA MITCHELL (41:04.472)
Like you just get, you just get good again. And I know it seems so trite and so like, well great, you know, Yahoo for you bitches, but like I'm in the trenches, right? It's right, right. No, no, it's this is a, what we need to say place. Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (41:14.166)
And when you're in the trenches, it fucking sucks. Like there's no other way, sorry, you can delete my bad words. It's so, it's so hard. And yeah, and it's not like...

The divorce is final and everything is great. Now I will say the day my divorce was finalized, my sister who is like my very best friend went and got me a cake that said welcome to the Amy era. And it was magical to like, and it is right? Like, but you have to relearn yourself. And I'm still doing that, right? Like I'm still doing that every day. No?

LISA MITCHELL (41:45.741)
Yes!

LISA MITCHELL (41:52.04)
yeah. And you're not the same person. You're not the same person. You're not. you foundationally at your core have shifted. And it can be a beautiful alchemy of like.

Aimee Kandrac (41:58.014)
No!

LISA MITCHELL (42:09.144)
reinforcing the good parts of you, I think. But it is something to be celebrated. I love that your sister took and created that moment and acknowledged you, right? Because it is, you're not the same. Nobody comes out of it the same way that they went into it. It's just not, I don't believe it's like, it's some sort of principle of chemistry or something that I feel like you're just, you're altered, right? And that doesn't mean bad or damaged.

Aimee Kandrac (42:11.53)
Yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (42:20.832)
was... yeah.

Aimee Kandrac (42:37.374)
You're all too.

LISA MITCHELL (42:39.128)
it just means you're different.

Aimee Kandrac (42:41.192)
This, my divorce has given me such an opportunity to grow that I didn't know I needed, didn't know I wanted, didn't know I could do. And I mean, I'm like, feel like I'm smut. The sun just came in. I'm like, happy.

LISA MITCHELL (43:00.27)
You literally just lit up. I love it. If anybody's watching this on video, literally her whole face just illuminated.

Aimee Kandrac (43:03.83)
But I almost, I know, mean, listen, just hit differently, but it kind of feels like that, but there's some days that are still weird and hard and I get in funks about things. So don't think that every time you see them, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's different and I didn't know.

LISA MITCHELL (43:22.18)
But you would have weird hard days even if you hadn't, you know, like, right.

Aimee Kandrac (43:25.688)
yeah. But now it's just,

growth that I couldn't have done before.

LISA MITCHELL (43:35.834)
Beautiful. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. I got nothing to say, but congratulations. And I love to see you happy and continuing to get the Amy era, know, fully established and thriving in the way that you want it to be.

Aimee Kandrac (43:45.558)
Thanks.

Aimee Kandrac (43:51.542)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (43:58.85)
Again, I just, want to thank you so much for sharing your story. Like it is never lost on me how much bravery and courage it takes and really what a heart to serve others it takes to come on a podcast like this and be like, Hey, here's like the deepest, darkest moments I've ever had in my whole life. And I'm going to just take you there in hopes that this might either just let you know there's somebody in the trenches with you or.

help you think of something as you're figuring out your next best step. So thank you for your generosity of your story and your heart with us. I know people are going to want to know how to hear more, how to connect more, and where to find your beautiful business that you run.

Aimee Kandrac (44:33.281)
you're welcome.

Love them.

Aimee Kandrac (44:40.608)
Well, the most ironic part of this, I find, is, so I mentioned earlier, I have a podcast. It's called Kitchen Chats with Amy Kandrack. And I did two seasons of it. It's called Kitchen Chats because when a major thing happens in life, I call my friends, we sit in the kitchen and we figure out what's next.

And as I finished my second season, I made plans for my third season that was, should have been released a year ago. and that season topic was major life transitions.

LISA MITCHELL (45:26.104)
Wow.

Aimee Kandrac (45:27.862)
Hmm. Hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (45:30.884)
just happened to line up for you.

Aimee Kandrac (45:33.014)
So there were, because I knew I was coming up with some, right? Like, yeah. Anyway, so that's going to be released pretty shortly. And we're talking about kind of how it happened to me and the life transitions that I was dealing with. And then the importance of your friends and your team and your people around it.

LISA MITCHELL (45:39.522)
right.

LISA MITCHELL (45:46.978)
Yes, yay.

Aimee Kandrac (46:02.738)
So anyway, so I've got that. just released a book this summer that people can find that is a guide for helping friends who are going through major life events. So.

LISA MITCHELL (46:04.097)
I love that.

LISA MITCHELL (46:14.2)
Amazing, because who isn't? mean, it's not always divorce, right? There's lots of ways we can, lots of things that can run us over while we're spinning our plates and having tools and resources and a plan is amazing. You're right, but then you find yourself one day saying, how was this my life? In a good way.

Aimee Kandrac (46:25.064)
And sometimes it all happens at once, right?

Aimee Kandrac (46:36.148)
Yeah, in a great way.

LISA MITCHELL (46:37.336)
Well, we'll link everything up in the show notes so you can find Amy's podcast and her book and get connected with her and more of her story. just, mean, I think my biggest takeaway, well, I have a couple of them, right? The biggest takeaway is preparation is key. The more you know, the...

Aimee Kandrac (46:46.336)
and our website. Thank you.

LISA MITCHELL (47:01.472)
the easier a terrible thing can feel as you move through it. So get curious, get curious, start building your resources. It's better to be prepared and not need them than need them and not have them.

Aimee Kandrac (47:04.694)
Mm-hmm.

Aimee Kandrac (47:15.478)
Well, you might need them for other reasons anyway, right? Like these are...

LISA MITCHELL (47:17.874)
Maybe your friend starts going through something and then you're like here look at look at all the things I've already figured out for you and I can help you yeah, so I'm a big believer that research and preparation saves you a lot of pain and suffering and Then you know just keeping in mind that people do people do some crazy things when they are In the heat of the moment so having a good inventory on your finances on your property

Just again, things that are great to have and know and have a really good handle on whether you end up ever needing to know all of that or not, get curious, do your research. And then I think the third is, you know, having those friends, those people, those support around you that can have those kitchen chats that can get you out of bed to go down and make it for coffee and that's a win.

Aimee Kandrac (48:01.718)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (48:09.55)
that's enough of a win and they're gonna walk in that with you. hopefully everyone listening to this has those people that you got a picture of somebody's face or people's face in your mind when we talk about that type of support. And if not, I hope you'll plug in more to the Divorce Curious community and let us be in that space for you.

Aimee Kandrac (48:29.652)
And you never know who's going to come in as angels into your life when this is going on. And let those people come in, because sometimes they've got experience that's going to help you that you didn't even know.

LISA MITCHELL (48:37.978)
True story.

LISA MITCHELL (48:46.53)
I love it. All right, we are gonna welcome in our angels, the people that are walking through this with us. And Amy, I'm glad that you had them. I'm glad that you're now choosing to be one for people that are listening to this that don't have their own.

Aimee Kandrac (48:51.264)
Mm-hmm.

LISA MITCHELL (49:02.52)
You know, so thank you for making people a little bit braver and letting them borrow your courage through your story. And see that you can celebrate your era afterwards. Cake optional, but always preferred, right, if there's an opportunity for cake. Right.

Aimee Kandrac (49:14.678)
Wait.

I would even say that's one of the non-optional activities, but you know, whatever.

LISA MITCHELL (49:25.598)
So we're going to wrap it up. Thank you all so much for tuning in to the Divorce Curious show. Again, I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. I hope to see you everywhere, but specifically at DivorceCuriousHelp.com. If you want to join the community, help get connected to your angels like Amy. Subscribe, like, share the podcast if you know somebody who is in it.

somebody who is just in it, thinking about going in it, coming out of it and looking to celebrate it. This really is for everybody. So again, thank you, Amy, for joining us today. Until next time, stay curious, friends.

Aimee Kandrac (49:58.74)
It's a pleasure.